Gloves are off in Nuclear Pakistan: The new battleground (well…old…but next stage!)

rasmasyean

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DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan - Pakistani jets pounded militant hide-outs along the Afghan border overnight as hundreds of thousands of civilians fled South Waziristan…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33308617/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/
Looks like an escalation toward a larger scale war than previous skirmishing.

Is this a danger to nuclear stability in the area? What are the chances of full scale civil war and atomic power falling into the hands of extremists? Good idea to pound them? Or better off keeping it hit and run? Scary of relieving?

Discuss… :)
 

thegoldenmackid

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Anyone that has done any research in the filed of Pakistan/India and nuclear war knows this is going to have little affect on something that will not happen.
 

rasmasyean

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Yeah, perhaps it’s just that the Taliban have got fed up with getting killed so much in Afghanistan that they figured they’d move and go do battle in Pakistan so they would at least do more damage to goal targets.
 

NT1440

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May 18, 2008
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Yeah, perhaps it’s just that the Taliban have got fed up with getting killed so much in Afghanistan that they figured they’d move and go do battle in Pakistan so they would at least do more damage to goal targets.
You don't know anything about the middle east do you? The Taliban (which is a massive grouping of many many smaller groups) have been in and control much of Pakistan and have for years. The Pakistani Government only controls 38% of the country. The bombing that just happened is in the federal tribal zone where they aren't really supposed to be.
 

rasmasyean

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Update…

Homeland security commissioner says that recent Taliban and group attacks are an act of desperation.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/33350980#33347156

As such, it seems Pakistani forces are mobilizing to surround all escape and supply routes to the stronghold while US are rushing in supplies, equipment, and craft into the area.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33339684/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

I wonder if the US and NATO are actually going to drop ground forces also to get a piece of the action too. If so this would appear to be a new frontier for the war on terror over the horizon. But, either way it looks like there will some major battles coming soon within the next days.

If this actually becomes a “finishing move” sort-of on the insurgency, where else can they establish a major stronghold? Or are they just going to spread out and have a whole bunch of little ones.
 

NT1440

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May 18, 2008
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Like I said before, the Taliban hold more of Pakistan than the government itself does. Now, if we are talking Taliban terrorists, thats a whole different story.
 

Zombie Acorn

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Like I said before, the Taliban hold more of Pakistan than the government itself does. Now, if we are talking Taliban terrorists, thats a whole different story.
Why are we talking at all besides trade wise? If they have some commodity to trade at a better rate than we get somewhere else lets do it.
 

rasmasyean

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What I don't get is why do they announce things such as these in advanced. Is it because it's impossible to mobilize ground forces without them knowing anyway? Or perhaps to warn civilians to flee the area?

Either way, it just give the insurgents amply time to slip out of there and perhaps even take all thier equipment with them. Unless you have US planes waiting by to bomb random convoys in assumption that they have weapons and militants...like in the highway of death in Kuwait.
 

Dont Hurt Me

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Its about time the govt got off its lazy butt and started doing something about the taliban. I was wondering how many attacks they were going to ignore? We gave them how many billions and what have they done? Maybe they are getting it slowly..ever so slowly.
 

rasmasyean

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Its about time the govt got off its lazy butt and started doing something about the taliban. I was wondering how many attacks they were going to ignore? We gave them how many billions and what have they done? Maybe they are getting it slowly..ever so slowly.
Maybe that's the new way of getting "aid" from America.

"Hey, we fight terrorists too! But we need money, arms, food, apple pies!"

So before long, the "US Aid" will be used against the US itself in one continuous cycle! :D
 

skunk

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It is impossible to defeat and/or completely eliminate groups like the Taliban.
It would be as well for some of our more gung-ho members (you know who you are) to read the following, which shows just how much "control" we have in Afghanistan. Using the word "terrorists" to describe the Taleban, or describing current operations as part of some nebulous "War on Terror", is missing the point and dooming any countermeasures to failure. What is going on in Pakistan and Afghanistan is not "terrorism" but a civil war. The Taleban constitute a parallel state, complete with police, taxation, governance of all kinds. The so-called Afghan "government" is akin to the "government" in Somalia, restricted to a minute area of control and entirely dependent on foreign support for its existence. Until this is taken on board, no amount of bravado and ignorant bluster is going to help.

The British base called Stalingrad

Surrounded by the Taliban, British troops and their commander in north Helmand feel let down by the slow pace of reconstruction.
Terri Judd reports
Sunday, 18 October 2009

In his fortified headquarters, Lt-Col Charlie Calder drew a large red circle on a map with a laser pointer indicating a vast expanse of northern Helmand, his area of responsibility. He then ringed a spot the size of a 10p piece – less than 20km square – to highlight the ground he and his battlegroup of 775 men have held during the bloodiest summer to date in Afghanistan. "To be totally honest, the fact is they [the Taliban] still control everything beyond it and there is nothing we can do about it," he said.
Beyond the hulking form of Mount Doom, an ominous landmark dominating the skyline, the enemy fighters operate freely across the district and into the mountains of Baghran. They are held back by a circle of a dozen small patrol bases – inhabited by British and Afghan forces – that stand on the front line and battle any incursion from the insurgents who surround them in every direction. A home-made wooden sign in one camp said it all: "Welcome to Stalingrad".
Within Lt-Col Calder's "ring of steel", Musa Qala bazaar is bustling once again. A school, a mosque and a clinic are up and running, and a variety of small projects to provide electricity and work are bubbling away. The centre of Musa Qala is a relative oasis (for in Helmand any area that suffers only a few roadside bombs, mortars, rockets and Taliban threats constitutes a haven), but without further troops and reconstruction, the British find themselves in a virtual stalemate.
"We have been largely security-focused. I don't think governance and reconstruction are moving forward sufficiently fast. Not enough has been done. Go and ask the Afghans – 99 per cent will say it is not happening fast enough," said the commanding officer of the 2nd Battalion, The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.
After the then-Brigadier Andrew Mackay and his men retook control of Musa Qala, he complained privately of a failure to provide adequate reconstruction to win over the hearts and minds of locals. British soldiers risking their lives were being let down by the Government, said the officer who, three weeks ago, became another to prominently resign.
Lt-Col Calder said that, 21 months on, the situation had not improved swiftly enough and more needed to be done to bring the wavering local fighters or "$10 Taliban" onside.
"We [soldiers] are good at consent- winning, low-level, short-term stuff. But we rely on the experts and reconstruction teams to deliver long-term reconstruction and governance. Ultimately, we have the consent of the people, but that lasts only so long unless they see progress within the government-controlled areas."
The young men on Lt-Col Calder's front line are determined their friends who have died will not have done so in vain and are quick to emphasise that – in military terms – their tour has been a success.
"We are killing a lot of Taliban," said Capt Olly Lever, 28, of the Black Watch. His platoon lost 22-year-old Cpl Sean Binnie in May when he tried to rescue Afghan soldiers he was mentoring. "People at home think we are taking a rogering. It is not true."
Cpl Jimmy Mather, 24, said: "We are smashing them. Every time we go forward they get a kicking. We are making an impact. He [Cpl Binnie] died doing something heroic. He chose to put himself in extreme personal danger to save others."
While the attention of people at home this summer was on Operation Panther's Claw, further south in Helmand, the north-west battlegroup, around Musa Qala, was involved in its own fierce engagements. During Operation Mar Lewe, they fought successfully to bring the 1,000 people of Yatimchay into the secure net, destroying a Taliban bomb factory and taking over narcotic strongholds in the process.
They pushed the enemy's forward line back three kilometres where A Company 2nd Battalion, the Royal Welsh, now occupies Patrol Base Minden. Surrounded on three sides, they can expect a friendly reception in Yatimchay to the north, albeit from locals who appeared blind last week to whoever had been placing roadside bombs on the British routes through their compounds.
"It is a time-honoured Pashtun tradition to keep a foot in each camp and play one against the other. They [the locals] haven't yet seen one side or the other having the upper hand," said Lt-Col Calder.
At Patrol Base Woqab, the most northerly post in Helmand, Major Richard Coates stood on the roof at dusk and pointed across the green zone at another building just a few hundred metres away. It is known simply as Compound 17, a Taliban firing point. In a mirror image of the situation at Minden, when Major Coates sends his men from B Company 2nd Battalion, the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, south into the secure zone surrounding the town of Musa Qala they can usually expect a friendly reception from locals who furtively point out where the insurgents have planted IEDs (improvised explosive devices). But a patrol north is greeted with an ambush.
Major Coates said: "During our brief time here we have seen signs of improvement. It is going in the right direction. For the locals, six months is nothing. We have to bear that in mind." Of the 100,000 people in his region, one-fifth are protected and under government influence. The rest are subjected to the brutality of Taliban law, checkpoints and taxes.
Lt-Col Calder said that an increase in British soldiers was not the only option. However, of just 350 Afghan National Army soldiers and 150 police (ANP) he has had to work with during the past five months, a large proportion were diverted south to help with Panther's Claw. "The ANA and ANP are effective but, there again, they are limited."
Their hatred of the Taliban makes them fierce fighters, British mentors said, but they are erratic and much happier rushing out to a battle than holding ground in defensive positions. Meanwhile, Musa Qala remains isolated. Once a month, a re-supply convoy of 50 vehicles travels the 60 kilometres from the main British base of Camp Bastion. The final six kilometres are the most lethal.
The battlegroup has found 250 IEDs along this route in the past five months, a third of which have exploded. This has severely hampered progress. Determined efforts to clear the way when the Royal Welsh joined the battlegroup were, tragically, insufficient. They were hit four times. Pte Richard Hunt, 21, who had survived a bomb a day earlier, was fatally wounded on 13 August, the 200th British soldier to die in Afghanistan.
Abdul Ahad, a farmer with seven children living beneath the crossfire around the British base near Woqab, said: "I hope my children will grow up and have a better life than me. I wish they could be engineers or doctors, but there is no school near by." A farmer in Yatimchay said: "The enemy are everywhere. They are planting bombs. They don't care about us or our children."
The IEDs that pepper the area mean that every patrol resembles a game of Russian roulette. Equally worrying is that the enemy is now using such "prestige weapons" as anti-aircraft machine guns, AGS-17 automatic grenade launchers and heavy 120mm mortars.
For soldiers, winning local consent is less about the grand vision for Afghanistan and more to do with daily survival, and some assurance that the pain they are suffering is worthwhile. "An old man said 'God bless you' as the patrol was going past the other day. It was good to get a spontaneous, positive response," said Sgt Giles Hodgskins, 37, of the Royal Army Medical Corps.​
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/the-british-base-called-stalingrad-1804764.html
 

Dont Hurt Me

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Dec 21, 2002
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I agree with skunks assessment and in fact was going to use the term civil war earlier but then changed my words. There is a civil war going on and we are choosing sides and sending billions but lets be honest. One side has nukes the other doesnt so who do you think we are going to support? One side is wrapped in extreme religion who will use children as human bombs and kill woman for going to school again which side do you think we are going to support? Whats the solution? I dont think letting the extremist win and have those weapons is a solution.
 

Macky-Mac

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May 18, 2004
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Iran officers die in suicide attack

this civil war isn't just in afghanistan and pakistan.....iran has its own problems with tribal groups in the area where the three countries share borders. From a report today by al jazeera


Iran officers die in suicide attack

Eleven commanders of Iran's Revolutionary Guards are among about 31 people killed in a suicide attack in southeastern Iran.

The suicide bombing, which occurred early on Sunday morning in the city of Pisheen, in Iran's Sistan-Baluchestan province, wounded another 28 people, nine of them critically.

General Nourali Shoushtari, the head of the Revolutionary Guards' armed forces, and General Mohammadzadeh, the Guard's commander in Sistan-Baluchestan, were killed.

The attack, the deadliest in Iran in recent years, occurred as officers were preparing to hold a meeting between locals from Shia and Sunni communities.

Ali Larijani, Iran's parliamentary speaker, confirmed the deaths in an address to parliament.

"We express our condolences for their martyrdom ... The intention of the terrorists was definitely to disrupt security in Sistan-Baluchestan province,'' Larijani said....

....A Sunni group called Jundallah (Soldiers of God) claimed responsibility for the attack, according to state media.

The group has been accused by Tehran of launching regular attacks in the province and is strongly opposed to the predominantly Shia government.

Abdul Sattar Doshoki, a Baluchi political analyst, told Al Jazeera: "This is not totally out of the blue. It was expected because Jundullah have issued a statement saying they were going to carry out a suicide attack against those who align themselves with the Revolutionary Guards against their group....
from another report on the bombing, this one from the AP posted at the Huffington Post

....Iran also has accused Jundallah of receiving support from al-Qaida and the Taliban, though some analysts who have studied the group dispute such a link.

"There is no evidence of outside help for Jundallah from wider militant networks," said Mustafa Alani, director of security and terrorism studies at the Gulf Research Center in Dubai. "It's a homegrown group that moves across the borders within fellow Baluchi tribes. It is very hard to control the border."

In an attempt to boost security in the region, Iran in April put the Revolutionary Guard directly in control of the Sistan-Baluchistan Province in Iran's southeastern corner.

The 120,000-strong Guard also controls Iran's missile program, guards its nuclear facilities and has its own ground, naval and air units.

The Revolutionary Guard led the blanket crackdown on dissident after Ahmadinejad's disputed re-election in June. But the attack Sunday appeared to have no link to the political showdowns.

State television accused Britain of supporting Jundallah, without providing any evidence....
 

rasmasyean

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It is impossible to defeat and/or completely eliminate groups like the Taliban.
I depends on what you mean by “defeat”. I mean, there are still Nazi’s and white supremacists around. But do they have a real impact anymore since Hitler was defeated and many of them executed? It’s hard to completely eliminate any political movement, but you can bring them to a state of ineffectiveness by eliminating those that have influence and defeating the spread of the ideology both with and without force.
 

rasmasyean

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Apparently women aren't supposed to learn over there. What a group of *******s. :rolleyes:
Well...according to some of the students it wasn't them. It was some sort of "conspiracy".

Many students did not accept that militants were responsible for the attack and instead blamed shadowy forces out to discredit Islam or weaken Pakistan — variations of conspiracy theories that are often heard here after bombings.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/pakistan-shuts-schools-after-university-bombing-1806540.html
 

Zombie Acorn

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rasmasyean

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