GM closing 4 SUV and Pickup plants

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jb60606, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. jb60606 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Location:
    Chicago
    #1
    It's unfortunate for the thousands that will lose their jobs, but I won't miss what they manufactured. Word is, the Hummer brand is also ending production.

    GM to shut down 4 SUV and Pickup plants
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #2
    It's truly sad that they couldn't find a way to modify the plants to produce other cars, such as the gas-free one mentioned. I also find SUVs disgusting, but this is an unfortunate way to get rid of them.
     
  3. SactoGuy18 macrumors 68020

    SactoGuy18

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA USA
    #3
    Expect GM to seriously look at essentially building their entire Opel line here in the USA within the next 5-7 years. Get ready for a proliferation of the B-segment Corsa, C-segment Astra, and the Meriva/Zafira "multi activity vehicles" from GM.
     
  4. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    #4
    they couldn't convert the plants to car facilities? /shrug. or are they just losing too much business to afford to keep them open?

    its horrible about the jobs, but who knows how long it'll take to get the cars to market, too little too late already, they should've been working on high MPG cars two years ago.
     
  5. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Location:
    London, England
    #5
    Sucks for the job losses involved, but hardly surprising things are going this way. They need to adapt, and they need to do it quickly.
     
  6. Sdashiki macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Location:
    Behind the lens
    #6
    Lets see if they come back, like Iacoca, and ask the tax payers for a bailout...this would be proof they are losing money...losing jobs for hard working americans...please help us...GM cant stay afloat...we sunk all our $ into gas-guzzling machines...we didnt see the future of oil like this!!!!?

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    #7
    Let me ask you, who did? Toyota and Honda with the Insight and Prius? Sure, but I doubt they saw oil spiking as fast as it is now. Surprising to many people, GM, Ford, Toyota, etc produced vehicles that the public wanted. If people didn't want SUV's and trucks, they would not have produced them. Every business is in it to make money. Toyota, Honda, and even our almighty Apple is in it for the money and not much of bringing good products to the market.
     
  8. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #8
    False dichotomy. You can bring good products to the market and make money, the two are not mutually exclusive.

    Secondly, there's been discussion about Peak Oil since 1956 with Hubbert's original theory, so to say that the auto industry was blind-sided means they weren't paying attention.

    What the car makers did was sell SUVs because the margins were so high, and ignored the smaller car market because they were so busy making new SUV designs. Toyota, on the other hand, saw potential in hybrids as a market differentiation and a salve to the already known problem of CO2 production. Toyota read the oracle better and they'll profit while Ford and GM falter. But, I think it's disingenuous to say that Toyota was just lucky, they clearly understood the potential for a new market.
     
  9. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #9
    That's a nice thought in theory, but you're ignoring the phenomenal advertising campaigns that automakers pay for. To a certain extent, automakers tell us what we WANT to buy. There's less free will involved than you think.

    When it comes to the spiking of oil prices, I think it's a matter of the big three putting their heads in the sand. Of course they had a not so gentle nudge from the current administration.

    Had bushco made the slightest effort to encourage Americans to conserve, I'll bet that fuel prices would be 20% less right now.
     
  10. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Location:
    London, England
    #10
  11. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    #11
    That $39 billion loss was due to a freak tax issue. GM doesn't have that much money to lose. They only have $24 billion in the bank.

    While I do agree with you guys that the Big 3 were short sighted, you can't put 100% blame on the companies and 0% on the consumer. Not the entire companies fault the consumer is easily tricked into buying what they are being told to buy. ;) If Apple could get away with making crappy products and still make money, would they bother investing in good products? No, and no company would if they could get away with crappy products. The Big 3 learned that lesson back in the 80's. Good product=sales= profit.
     
  12. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #12
    Oh, of course, the consumers who bought the biggest vehicle possible are to blame as much, if not more so, than the Big 3. Lots of people bought status-symbols without considering the future, how else to explain the H2, one of the most shoddily-built vehicles I've seen, that nonetheless sold very well for a period.

    Also, of course, this assumes that consumers are rational animals...
     
  13. stevento macrumors 6502

    stevento

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #13
    GM needs to face the facts. If they want to be profitable, they are going to have to start making cars/trucks that people want to buy. Nobody is going to buy a car just because its American anymore.
     
  14. Sdashiki macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Location:
    Behind the lens
    #14
    No one said we needed a consumer based Hummer...(H2)

    No one said we needed a consumer based truck...(Expedition...Suburban?)

    These things already existed in other forms, but people are sheep.
     
  15. NC MacGuy macrumors 603

    NC MacGuy

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Location:
    The good side of the grass.
    #15
    I rented a new Malibu two weeks ago and it compared very favorably to my Accord. Excellent gas mileage, good suspension, fit and finsih were impressive. I'd actually think of buying one even though as much of the Accord is made in the U.S. as the Malibu.

    Heck, I've seen Fords made in Canada and Mexico and Toyota was working w. GM and sharing some facilities. Fords were assembled side by side with Mazda's I believe.

    Issue is pickups and SUV's - especially the Tahoes, Suburbans, Hummers and their like have long run their course as being inefficient icons to a day in time long past.
     
  16. danny_w macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    #16
    All the people praising Toyota seem to forget that Toyota and Honda both make SUV's and trucks too (and some very large ones at that). It's good that they have hybrids, but if they were totally energy minded they would not have the gas guzzlers in their line. They were playing both ends just like everybody else.
     
  17. gkarris macrumors 604

    gkarris

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Location:
    "No escape from Reality..."
    #17
    I have an SUV and love mine. It is a 4-cylinder compact one. I bought it over ten years ago new. I never really believed in wasting gas, so I went with a 4-cylinder compact rather than anything larger. I'm glad I did.

    SUV's are great trying to get around bad weather and for hauling computer equipment for work.

    Now those MEGA ones people are speeding around with - those are dangerous... :eek:
     
  18. jb60606 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Location:
    Chicago
    #18
    Did you see what was coming up next?

    Ford F650
    Ford F650
     
  19. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    #19
    thats just stupid.
     
  20. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    Location Location Location
    #20
    True and false. People did want SUVs, but I think a lot of it has to do with creating a market, and creating popularity. SUVs have been around for decades. In the 1990s, did you see such a craze for the GMC Jimmy and Toyota 4-Runner? No. Were they less useful back then? No. Was there a sudden change in weather that hit the world and change everything within a 5 year span? No. It just sort of popped up. Do you think millions of mums and dads out there really thought, "You know what? I want an SUV now. I didn't want one last year, or last decade, but I want one now." Surprisingly, the answer is "Yes", so you're kind of right. Yes, this is actually what happened, but no, this urge for SUVs didn't happen without clever advertising in movies, shows, and music videos. From there, it was also advertised through ubiquity, which is a rather sub-conscious factor, but it has definitely been proven to work.

    Your use of Toyota, Honda, and Apple as examples aren't really great, because the Toyota RAV4 and Honda CRV probably helped form a market for small SUVs when there wasn't a demand for such a car. It's just a small wagon that's seated slightly higher up. Take a Subaru Forester and raise it an extra 6" off the ground. Yet people bought it up. "It's like an SUV, but more fuel efficient and sportier". It is? Oh yeah right......it is.*cough*

    Apple also created their own markets.
     
  21. NC MacGuy macrumors 603

    NC MacGuy

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Location:
    The good side of the grass.
    #21
    Honda's trucks & SUVs have some of the highest MPG ratings of any manufacturer for capacities and their biggest are the Pilot and Ridgeline.

    Toyota on the other hand has gone to building the Sequoia and Tundra to keep up with the bigger is better craze.
     
  22. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    #22
    not to mention that the rav4 gets excellent MPG for its size, and Toyota already has hybrid suv's out there too as of a couple of years ago.
     
  23. SactoGuy18 macrumors 68020

    SactoGuy18

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA USA
    #23
    Surprisingly, GM is one of the few companies that actually have a product line that could adapt for the changing American market. See my suggestion about essentially building the Opel/Vauxhall line (Corsa, Astra, Meriva, Zafira, etc.) here; the Vectra line is more or less here in the form of the Saturn Aura.
     
  24. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2001
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #24
    It's easy to see how this came about.

    Auto Industry Lobbyists: Light trucks are not typical passenger vehicles. They are used for hauling on farms and the like, not highway driving, so they should not be held to the same standards for fuel economy and passenger safety under conditions most trucks never see.

    Government: Sounds reasonable, and thanks for your campaign contribution.

    Auto Industry: Hey, buyers, pickup trucks are where it's at! They're stylish and cheaper than similarly-equipped passenger cars! Get yours today!

    Buyers: Hunh. I guess I do haul... um, things... now and again.

    Auto Industry Lobbyists: You know, if you think about it, an SUV is really more like a light truck than it is like a car. It's like a pickup with the truck-top built in.

    Government: Sounds reasonable, and thanks for your campaign contribution.

    Auto Industry: Hey, buyers, pickup trucks make you look like a redneck, station wagons make you look like a 70s reject and minivans announce to the world that your social life is over. You need an SUV. They're stylish, and while more expensive than pickup trucks, they're still slightly cheaper than similarly equipped passenger cars. Get yours today!

    Buyers: Well, I don't want to look like a dork. One SUV, please.

    Auto Industry: You know, passenger cars will get crushed by a lot of vehicles on the road today, and it's hard to see around some of them. I recommend you have a slightly larger SUV than your neighbors. It's a little more expensive, but what price is too high for your piece of mind?

    Buyers: Good point. Where do I sign?
     
  25. bartelby macrumors Core

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    #25
    :eek:
    And Ford wonder why they're in trouble...:rolleyes:
     

Share This Page