GOP senator: Healthcare deal unlikely this year

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by RootBeerMan, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Jan 31, 2010
    Midlife, Midwest
    I take it you mean the days when medicine consisted of leeches, bleeding, and liberal doses of laudanum.

    A normal hospital birth costs an average of over $20,000 in this country. Simple heart valve surgery can cost upwards of $70,000. A course of advanced cancer treatment can easily cost over $500,000.

    Please let me know how many regular citizens of this country you think can afford to pay those kind of expenses out of pocket.

    Because that is what a true "free market" healthcare system would look like.
  2. chown33 Moderator

    Staff Member

    Aug 9, 2009
    Can you describe when those days were (within a decade or so), and what the characteristics of that "truly free market" were?

    As I read it, a truly free market is one with no government regulation, oversight, or intervention. That hasn't existed in the US in well over a century.
    Up until the 20th century, there were few federal laws regulating the contents and sale of domestically produced food and pharmaceuticals, with one exception being the short-lived Vaccine Act of 1813. A patchwork of state laws provided varying degrees of protection against unethical sales practices, such as misrepresenting the ingredients of food products or therapeutic substances. ...

    In June 1906, President Theodore Roosevelt signed into law the Food and Drug Act, ...​

    Even before the Fed Govt got involved (1902-1906), some States had their own regulations about what could be sold within their borders, who could practice medicine, purity standards for drugs, what insurance carriers had to do (minimum capitalization), and so on. That wasn't working out too well because transportation improvements were making commerce easier and cheaper.

    The Fed Govt got involved on the grounds of interstate commerce (the Commerce Clause), and due to public backlash against widespread food & drug adulteration, fraud, etc.

    To this day, States still have their own licensing for medical practictioners, drug producers, drug sales, etc. Federal law trumps State law on what can be sold (no more Heroine Cough Syrup to quiet little Jimmy's pertussis).

    As noted above, those laws and regulations have been in place for over a century, so either you mean something else by "a truly free market", or you're not taking US history and the reasons for regulation into account.

    Or maybe you really do think it's sad that we won't return to the days of food adulteration, fake or impure medicines, quack doctors, etc. I strongly suspect not, but it's difficult to tell what you really mean when you resort to vague nostalgic references that every person is free to imagine for themselves.
  3. Eraserhead macrumors G4


    Nov 3, 2005
    Don't you need to be in the top quarter of all Americans to even have $20k in savings?
  4. bradl macrumors 68040


    Jun 16, 2008
    You obviously don't know how our government works.

    The Reds had majorities in both houses 2 years of Obama's last term. They would have had enough votes to override any veto of a bill Obama shot down. In fact, they did as such. They had their chance to fix what was wrong with the ACA, but didn't.

    They had the chance to have their input in on working with the ACA, but didn't. All they did was *****, scream, and moan about "death panels", "keep the government out of our MediCare", and idiotic drivel like that. They did nothing but obstruct, try to leave things as is, and basically do nothing to contribute to fixing healthcare in this country.

    Yes, those rose-coloured glasses should be producing some major thorns going straight into your temples.

  5. samcraig macrumors P6

    Jun 22, 2009
    Further - Ryan himself proved to be a hypocrite and changed his "view" about the speed and methods of pushing a healthcare bill from when it was Obama to when it was Trump (his) bill. So glad that and he/Trump failed big league.
  6. poloponies Suspended

    May 3, 2010
    Woo-hoo, I'm a 25-percenter! Only 24 percent more to go.
  7. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a


    Apr 20, 2009
    LOL. You don't understand how things work. Doing nothing or the wrong thing will get Republicans blamed.

    You're joking right? Have to be. You can't be that oblivious to recent history. The Republicans jammed through a replacement tied to a specific date....the date of Obamacare signing...just to be snarky. Snark isn't good governance. And it blew up in their face. Now all of a sudden they want to take their time? LMAO. No they don't. They want it passed but can't round up the votes. The GOP is a mess and doesn't know how to govern properly anymore.
  8. Zenithal macrumors G3

    Sep 10, 2009
    The cynic in me believes this was all a farce to avoid being mobbed by their voterbase.

    "We tried, but that sneaky Obama made it so dang hard for us to do anything!"
    --- Post Merged, Jun 2, 2017 ---
    To be quite frank, when I read a similar report, I was surprised most people who aren't working minimum wage don't have at least 100K in savings they could readily access. After that, I avoided discussions about money because I was clearly out of touch with how most people live.
  9. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Feb 2, 2009
    Toronto, Ontario
    Good. I hope it fails and Obamacare does as well.
  10. MacNut macrumors Core


    Jan 4, 2002
    Have you been hacked, somebody tell the mods.
  11. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Feb 2, 2009
    Toronto, Ontario
    Universal healthcare advocate since 2009.
  12. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020


    Jan 31, 2015
    I'll be surprised if we ever see a healthcare bill under this administration. Either the republicans want it repealed or are too afraid to sacrifice their careers on an unfavorable bill. It's very easy to give people things, it's very hard to take things away.
  13. Eraserhead macrumors G4


    Nov 3, 2005
    If you start off with $100k in savings, then you can buy a house for (say) $200k at 21, then assuming you live the same lifestyle as everyone else it'll be paid off at 30. Then you can save the ~$90k a decade you'd make in mortgage payments over the next three decades and land up with $270k.

    If you start off with nothing, then you might save $3k/year for a deposit for 10 years and then buy that same $200k house with a $170-80k mortgage. But because of higher interest rates you'd probably take 25 years to pay off the mortgage. At which point you'll get to 55 before paying off your mortgage meaning if you then save your mortgage payment you'll land up with $45k at 60.

    Of course on top of that house prices go up, as does the stock market, so the difference between the two scenarios will be even more exaggerated.
  14. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a


    May 30, 2011
    My eyes aren't at good as they were, but from this distant it looks like a loaded question :)

    Well and if we are presice, you'd only need about 20% of the population to be dumb enough.....

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