Gore's Message To Climate Change Skeptics

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by solvs, Mar 30, 2008.

  1. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #1
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/27/60minutes/main3974389.shtml

    And for those with criticisms about his home:

    And if anyone thinks this is all still just a partisan thing:

    http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1579270/20080108/id_0.jhtml

    ;)

    Though I wish we'd call it something else, like Global Climate Change, to accurately reflect what's happening.
     
  2. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #2
    Despite what Gore says there are prominent and respected scientists who disagree that global warming is caused predominantly by man. History has shown that these changes in global temperature are a natural cycle the Earth goes through.
     
  3. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #3
    You mean like scientist who work for Exxon or Bush and his team of liars ,I mean spin masters. Even a moron like Bush knows a gas engine pollutes and creates heat. Times that by billons and then say we dont know for sure is stupid.
    Fact is the Earth is Heating up. Fact is we are polluting Big time and Fact is we have billions of factories and engines creating heat and pollution.
    Why let a little thing like facts stand in your way?
     
  4. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #4
    True.

    Also true.

    Also true. Although billions might be a slight exaggeration.

    Because the question that needs to be asked is, if we stop the polluting agents now, will the Earth continue to heat up due to natural circumstances?

    That is what is in doubt.
     
  5. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #5
    My point is man is not helping this equation and playing Ostrich on this matter like we have been doing this past 7 years of BushCo is........Stupid.
     
  6. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #6
    Unfortunately arrogance and ignorance are both bi-partisan.

    I find it hard to believe that all dissenting voices to "global climate change" conclusions are on the Bush/Oil Company payroll just by virtue of their opinion.

    I know it is "fiction" but Michael Crichton's book "State of Fear" gives a good look at fear mongering and how it plays into all of this.

    I would say most of us are ill equipped to make any significant conclusions. We all choose sides based on our presuppositions, politics and so forth. In other words, we all believe someone else's conclusions because we trust them, for whatever reason. Maybe their arguments sound 'reasonable', but that doesn't mean they are right.

    For me, the rhetoric from Gore, et. al. is enough to make me skeptical. "If you don't believe me, you are stupid." Uh, OK.


    Woof, Woof - Dawg [​IMG]
     
  7. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #7
    If GW is not caused by man then we will have to lower our emissions even more to counter this 'natural' warming process, no?

    Edit: GW is Global Warming, not George Dubya ;)
     
  8. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #8
    Depending on who you listen to, there are many scientists who have concluded that man's contribution to global "climate change" is negligible, and any adjustments we make would have a negligible affect. For every statistic cited by one side, there is a counter statistic from the other.

    Woof, Woof - Dawg [​IMG]
     
  9. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #9
    In that ratio?

    I really want to see these statistics.
     
  10. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #10
    Google is your friend

    Woof, Woof - Dawg [​IMG]
     
  11. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #11
    So the 'there are always counter-statistics' remark was based on?
     
  12. QCassidy352 macrumors G3

    QCassidy352

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    #12
    No... there aren't. This is no longer a serious debate in the scientific community. There is still some question as to exactly how much of this is natural cycling, but the rate at which natural cycling happens doesn't come anywhere close to explaining the climate changes we're seeing now.

    Again, the "many scientists" you cite are basically a small group who are funded by the energy industry. The vast, vast majority of the studies supporting the position you suggest have been done by the same handful of energy industry scientists who just cite to each other and make it look like there's serious disagreement in the scientific community. There isn't. There hasn't been for some time.

    I did quite a bit of research on this about two years ago, and it really worries me that attitudes like this still exist. It really speaks to the ability of even a few fringe voices to create the impression that there's a legitimate debate when there isn't. You can always find a few guys with PhDs to support your position. But you're talking about a couple percent of climate scientists, at most, who would take the position that anthropogenic factors are not at least a significant, if not the dominant, drivers of global of climate change.

    Let me be clear - at places that we would think of as "objective," government institutions like NASA, NOAA, and EPA, there are vanishingly few to no scientists who believe that the current climate change can be explained entirely or even significantly by natural cycles. I'm sure that if Al Gore can't convince you I can't either, but those are the facts. And as always, people will continue to believe what they want in the face of the facts.
     
  13. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #13
    Google is your friend, too. Show us all those legit studies you were talking about. I'm sure we'd all love to see them.
     
  14. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #14
    Actually that is not quite true. The poles have significant amounts of CO2 trapped in the ice. As the Earth heats up (note I am not denying that fact), more ice melts thus releasing huge amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere. Now, this can be caused by purely natural circumstances. The natural cycle could start small amounts melting releasing more CO2 into the atmosphere which causes more ice to melt and so on and so forth.

    This is one theory on natural global warming. I haven't seen anything discrediting it, although it has been a while since I looked. I've never stated man is not responsible to some extent, I just think our involvement is overblown.
     
  15. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #15
    But therein lies the fault... you are now saying that Carbon Dioxide is causing Global Warming...

    So as I said before, if this is the case, then the only solution (I talk solutions, not problems) is to reduce our own CO2 emissions to counter this effect. If our involvement has been 'overblown', which I doubt it has, then that means we'll need to reduce emissions even more.

    (BTW, QCassidy352 was spot on)
     
  16. digitalnicotine macrumors 65816

    digitalnicotine

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    #16
    I think the scientists on both sides of the issue are right to a degree. I believe natural cyclical forces are at work here, and I also believe we are accelerating them (to our detriment) by our lifestyles. I commend Gore for his part in making this a global hot topic, and don't care if it's politically motivated. Regardless of whether or not any actions we take now can counter or reverse this process, taking action now will help with several important things, such as air quality, the ozone layer, and widespread motivation to switch to fuels that are less destructive to the atmosphere.

    Now that China is coming on board with the lifestyle, things are absolutely going to worsen. There is no need to have a "Day After Tomorrow" scenario hanging over our heads in order for us to take action to preserve the things about our planet that make it habitable for humans. So regardless of the cause behind climate changes, the status quo is not helping matters, and it's time for change.
     
  17. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #17
    But the point you are missing is that the amount of CO2 stored in the ice caps is absolutely vast, much more than we can produce in any given time frame. That is the debate, does the cause of global warming come from natural sources and does the CO2 that humans produce have a significant effect on otherwise natural processes?

    Reducing human emissions would be pointless if it accounts for a small amount of total CO2 and other greenhouse gases when taking into account natural sources.

    I've even read arguments by environmentalists saying we should stop eating beef because cows create methane gas :rolleyes:. Yes, that's right because cows fart.
     
  18. walangij macrumors 6502

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    #18

    I would truly like to believe that Man was responsible for the climate change going on because that would mean that we can stop it. What we need to acknowledge is that it is true, the climate is always fluctuating, there is hardly a baseline that is "normal". In our opinion what has been "normal" for the past few decades is changing.

    This said, if nature is responsible for climate change and we can't do anything to stop it, we are doomed :(. If more gases are released into the atmosphere and the sea floors warm and the trapped methane sublimes and is released causing more warming, many people will die. As more vital species go extinct, deforestation continues to occurs, improper agriculture techniques destroys precious topsoil causing famines, the sea continues to be over fished and the lack of clean drinking water continues, more and more people will migrate, there will be much more disease, less food, more war more death.

    Ok, so it sounds like fearmongering, but whatever. One of our best choices is to move towards more sustainable practices in all aspects of our economy and our personal life. A goal to be carbon neutral and reduce the amount of pollutants in our atmosphere can only benefit us.

    Humans are destroying this beautiful natural world. As atheists, I would assume that they would be at the forefront in advocating for preserving this magnificent biosphere and the biodiversity that we have. As traditional Theists, I would assume that they would also be at the forefront in preserving the world as Genesis 1 says Then God said, "Let us make man in our image [...] And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.
     
  19. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #19
    This is where I lose patience with these discussions.

    Cromulent: Yes, the cows are a problem. No joke.
     
  20. walangij macrumors 6502

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    #20
    What do you mean? I guess we're misunderstanding each other? What I meant was that compared to what our climate baseline that is commonly used (the past few decades of climate records), things have been changing and are always changing. If we look at it through any time period: eon, era, period or epoch, even in the holocene, global temperatures it continues to fluctuate much more drastically as the time span increases.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Eric Piercey macrumors 6502

    Eric Piercey

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    #21
    Who among us thinks its alright for mankind to jack up the planet? I can understand being resistant to Gore's (I'm not personally) message that human beings are behind GW but regardless its time we make some serious changes in how we live.
     
  22. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #22
    This is actually one of the many problems with the monotheistic Judaeo/Christian/Muslim belief system, in that, alone among major world religions, it promotes the idea that every other species is subservient to humankind, and the world itself is there for the taking, an attitude which encourages the wholesale exploitation of animals and the unrestrained plundering of natural resources.
     
  23. ham_man macrumors 68020

    ham_man

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    #23
    Which is odd, because several major religious leaders have come out saying the exact opposite...
     
  24. ZiggyPastorius macrumors 68040

    ZiggyPastorius

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    #24
    This is typical Al Gore. "You deny my incredulous scientific claims, therefore you are stupid. Now then...hurry up and implement solutions into your life that directly benefit me financially!"

    I've read plenty on Global warming, and have read some very strong cases that a "Greenhouse" is not even a very accurate representation of how the Earth works. I'm not against the idea of Global Warming, but I think at this point to say "it is a 100% fact that humans are causing global warming and we need to do this and this and this to stop it" is just plain ignorancy, because I don't think the science is conclusive enough. I'm reading a book right now called "Unstoppable Global Warming" which was given to me personally by my state representative, which makes some strong cases against the idea of man-made global warming. Perhaps as we go on, we'll obtain some more definite information, but at the current point in time, there's a huge political lobby purporting man-made global warming, who basically say if you don't buy into our global warming stories, then you're a **** and you are part of the problem. Anyways, just my two cents (from someone who doesn't know jack **** about anything).
     
  25. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #25
    We are just visitors on this planet. If Mother Earth wants us off she can do what ever she wants and we won't have any choice. Look at Mars, it once had water. What is to say the same won't happen to Earth in 1000 years. Global warming might be man made or natural, we might never know. And if people do know for sure when the world will end do you think they will tell us. Hell they won't even tell us if aliens have landed for fear of what people would do. What do you think would happen if the government said global warming is natural and there is nothing we can do about it we are all doomed. They want to give hope and say it is our fault maybe we can stop it. That gives a sense of hope that we are not doomed. Then if things don't get any better in 50 years they have a built in lie saying it was all mans fault. [/conspiracy]
     

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