Grand Jury rejects indictment of officers who killed man with downs syndrome

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by sim667, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #1
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/no-criminal-charges-in-death-of-robert-saylor-fre

    Physical restraint should not have been required, Im guessing the officers weren't trained in dealing with individuals with learning difficulties.

    Also why are 3 off duty cops all carrying handcuffs?
     
  2. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #2
    From your post:

     
  3. sim667 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #3
    Ah missed that.
     
  4. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #4
    To be fair the British police don't always handle people with mental illness well so I think it's a bit much to expect the American police to manage it.

    That said they should be able to avoid people with mental illnesses landing up dead unless they are a direct threat.
     
  5. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #5
    Being uncooperative and apparently combative is what caused the restraints. I don’t know to what extent he was restrained, that could prove to be important.

    Not to second guess or criticize the officers but our policy required we position those in hobbles, (and those in cuffs when necessary) on their side to prevent possible asphyxia.

    This policy came about after a combative suspect was hobbled and placed in the back seat of a car on his chest and died.
     
  6. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #6
    The part that everyone keeps missing in these stories, you can't resist the police. You have no right to become combative with police. You can't fight with them, you can't go for their guns, you can't refuse to comply. When you do, you find yourself in a whole mess of trouble.

    Your article says that he verbally and physically resisted their efforts to remove him. When dealing with someone who is large, who refuses to comply, you are going to use restraints. You don't want to spend all day fighting him.

    I know there are those who think that the police should just ask him politely to leave and then when he tells them that he refuses, they should just walk away but that isn't going to happen.

    Don't resist the police!
     
  7. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #7
    Really? Please point out to me where posters have advocated for that.
     
  8. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #8
    Mentally ill people find that hard. The police need to work with mentally ill people and treat them with the respect they deserve.
     
  9. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #9
    In thread after thread, I have watched posters state that the police should walk away. Look at the thread on Michael Brown, posters stated that he should have gotten in his car and rolled the windows up. You cannot resist arrest it is simple. Do what the police tell you.

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    If you are too mentally ill to understand that you cannot resist police, you maybe shouldn't be out in public by yourself, even for a few minutes.
     
  10. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #10
    So it won't be hard for you to find a few examples, would it?
     
  11. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #11
    I would love to hear your comments if lets say the Dutch police shot an unarmed US citizen because he didn't respond.
     
  12. sim667 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #12
    Have you missed the part in the article where it said the victim suffered with downs syndrome.

    Poor bloke probably had the logical reasoning of a 5 year old, the strength of an ox, decided he loved the film, didn't understand that he had to pay again, and then to top it all off three individuals from a department he idolizes tell him he has to leave...... At the end of the day the guy has paid with his life for a $10 cinema ticket and a misunderstanding.

    If you see someone with learning difficulties in distress, you don't try and restrain them, unless they're going to cause you harm. Get hold of someone who knows them.

    What the carer was doing though I've no idea.

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    We all know it would probably be the end of western civilisation as we know it.

    Dutch people would be categorised with muslims.
     
  13. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #13
    Well Geert Wilders would be in for a very interesing time then.:D
     
  14. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #14
    What about if you've drunk 10 pints? Should the police be allowed to execute you in that case?
     
  15. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #15
    In the U.S., milk comes in pints. Beer comes in mean little 8 oz glasses. We would do well to emulate the U.K. in that respect.
     
  16. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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  17. sim667 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #17
    Geert Wilders deserves an "interesting time" in all honesty.
     
  18. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #18
    Tactical retreat while you wait for backup is not the same as running away.
     
  19. sim667 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #19
    So much for independent living eh?

    Next you'll be saying they should be executed at birth :rolleyes:
     
  20. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #20
    Did you sell your empathy on eBay for 1$ if so the person gave negative feedback on the ripoff.
     
  21. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #21
    huh?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plummer_v._State

    http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/5326619-Can-the-right-to-resist-become-a-license-to-kill/

    you can use deadly force to resist UNLAWFUL arrest.

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    you can disagree with him all you wish, fact is if that person should have NOT been out on his own .

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    completely agree.

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    if he did, then he bought common sense, a person like that should not be out on his own.
     
  22. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #22
    The part you keep missing is that our society has thrown the mentally ill and developmentally disabled out on the streets. By definition, many of those folks can't cope. That is why 40% of New York City jail inmates are mentally ill.

    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/13/opinion/keeping-the-mentally-ill-out-of-jail.html?action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=article&_r=3

    How can it be that so few police officers are trained to deal with the mentally ill and disabled when they have so many interactions with such people?

    Look at the Albuquerque police shooting of the homeless man in his own encampment again. It is astounding the level of fear police officers have towards the homeless mentally ill and disabled.

    Disagree all you wish, but, over and over police are judge, jury, and executioner because there are a lot of people out there who, by definition, are lacking "common sense".

    I guess these police think it can't happen to them-- that some family member of theirs could be mentally ill or developmentally disabled. Or, imagine, that they themselves could become mentally ill.

    More recommended reading: Crazy, by Pete Earley.
     
  23. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #23

    So if a person doesn't immediately follows instructions the police should use deadly force?
     
  24. sim667 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #24
    Why? Because he got scared when confronted with 3 intimidating police officers?
     
  25. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #25
    the man was restrained, not executed:rolleyes:
    placing him in hand cuffs is NOT the definition of using deadly force

    because he was not able to understand what was happening or why it was happening. the cops rendered assistance once they saw him in trouble. sorry, but this man should NOT have been unsupervised.
     

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