Greetings from Afghanistan . . .

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Naimfan, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    #1
    Deployed here with the US Army. From the geography, could be Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Arizona, etc. It IS a bit warm - and very dry. The combination leads to a lot of dust - thank goodness for air conditioning and good seals on doors, even if we don't have any windows and have concrete barriers around our buildings (including our barracks).

    The people seem . . . tired. Who can blame them? They've been at war for a good chunk of their existence, and the majority (being under 15) have never known anything else. Most people near where we are have no idea that there's a national government, and those that do have little faith in it. It's going to take a long time for the country to build itself up.

    What do people here think? Should we stay and try to help Afghans build? Or just get the heck out of Dodge?
     
  2. Huntn, Aug 12, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #2
    Thanks for your service!

    No, get the heck out of Dodge. Nation building is an incredibly expense task with no assurance of success. In most cases our adversaries can just wait us out. If you remember Bush 1 was against it, he stopped the first Desert Storm forces from going to Bagdad. Colin Powell said if we break it we own it. These people understood the challenges unlike Bush 2. Bush 2 believed in the concept democratic elections, but when they took place in Palestine, looked who got elected, Hamas. It illustrates that culture has more sway then "freedom", especially when the people who are supposed to represent freedom, are in there propping up dictators and meddling in other undesirable ways.
     
  3. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    All the foreign occupation achieves is to enable, empower and embolden a rampantly corrupt kleptocracy. We should all leave.
     
  4. Dr McKay macrumors 68040

    Dr McKay

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    I think that now that were there, we should finish what we started. British Air Force here, I love working with Americans. We get to steal all the great free stuff you get. :)
     
  5. Andeavor macrumors 6502

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    The longer you stay, the harder it will be for them to form a nation strong enough to stand a chance against the modern world. As you said, for most of the population, this is status quo and as long as you stay in their country promising a brighter future the less they will be motivated to do it on their own.

    It's like keeping a child at home because you're afraid it's going to get hurt in the big world out there. In life you need to get hurt to learn and grow and the same goes for a nation. We can all stand by for further assistance but we can't hold their hands forever or they will be unable to let go themselves.

    And if whoever you are fighting over there is wiping them out without your assistance then that has been their fate all along. I know it sounds cruel and we should fight terrorists where we can but when a nation is at its wit's end, we should let it crumble so a new one can be formed, bigger, stronger and hopefully independent.
     
  6. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    For the Palestinians Hamas was an entirely rational choice, offering an escape from the rampant corruption and incompetence of Fatah. The network of hospitals and schools and the group's success in small local administrations illustrated that could do a better job than their predecessors.
     
  7. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #7
    I knew that. My point was when people get to vote, they are not magically going become U.S. allies. ;)
     
  8. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #8
    We need to get our troops out. But before we "get out of Dodge" we need to work with the U.N. and countries neighboring Afghanistan to create humanitarian zones for refugees. Monitor for genocide or other human abuses within the country. Then let the Afghanis figure it out for themselves.

    ----------

    But what does that mean, to finish what we've started?

    What is the measure of success?

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    Why would we assume they would?
     
  9. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #9
    Did you see Charlie Wilson's War? That should give you an idea how to measure success. Just developing a good education system that would help the people become self-sufficient into he future would go light-years toward "success" as well as instilling a sense of goodwill. Killing off bad guys only goes so far.
     
  10. Naimfan thread starter macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    #10
    Way too many recent green on blue incidents!

    I have seen Charlie Wilson's War - it's brilliant. Sadly, it still seems like he and three other guys are working on strategy . . .

    A recent Afghan sunset . . .
     

    Attached Files:

  11. ugahairydawgs macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    #11
    First off....thank you for your service. A selfless act that many of us lose perspective about daily. To you and your fellow men and women in the service.....thank you a thousand times over.

    As far as your question. I think we have to stay. I think once we went in we were locked into seeing this through, which is unfortunate because there is no easy or clear path to places like Afghanistan being completely rebuilt. But we can't just pack up and leave. We tried that once in the 80s after the Soviets pulled out after their invasion and it created a vacuum in the power structure that was filled with fundamentalists and led to the rise of the Taliban.

    This war has been costly enough, both in terms of lives lost and dollars spent. We can't afford to go through this conflict again a decade from now because we bailed on the end game.
     
  12. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #12
    NATO should never have been deployed in Afghanistan in the first place.
     
  13. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    Do you honestly think that the Soviets could have built a stable Afghanistan if they had just stayed there longer? We should have said mission accomplished after we got Bin Laden and pulled out then. No matter how long we stay there it will just fall apart again when we leave. Our soldiers are doing the best they can, but it will just fall apart when we leave.
     
  14. ugahairydawgs macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    #14
    The Soviets weren't there to help in the 80s....they were an occupying force. We helped the Afghans boot the Soviets from the country and then when they needed help rebuilding the country after it got blown to hell, we bailed.
     
  15. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    I would have said "mission accomplished" after the election of President Karzai.
     
  16. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    The Soviets were there because the Communist government in charge at the time asked them to come in and prop the government up to stop their civil war. They were trying to help at least as much if not more than we are now. The US just covertly funded the rebels because we wanted regime change, we got it and later suffered the consequences of putting that regime in place.
     
  17. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #17
    You'd have to ask the Bush Administration and Condoliza Rice. I'm sure there are lots of smart U.S. diplomats around who could of educated them, but I remember after the election in question, Rice saying something to the effect "we had no idea it would turn out like this."
     

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