Growing College Degree Wealth Gap

thermodynamic

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Original poster
May 3, 2009
1,336
1,175
USA
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/04/the-growing-wealth-gap-in-who-earns-college-degrees/479688/

Since educated people is the core of what makes a country competitive, so many reforms must be addressed or else the US really will fall behind. Right down to colleges fleecing students since the great recession, inflating grades, and other grossly unethical actions that have ripped off student and loan backer, since - unlike in 1978 - a summer job can't possibly pay for a degree any longer. And, really, must Americans have to train their own H1B replacements to help them build their countries with at our expense before being told how we're falling behind or lazy or the other talk the working class is accused of being?
 

zioxide

macrumors 603
Dec 11, 2006
5,725
3,711
yeah, looking at colleges with the daughter and the ones we would like (USC) are way out of reach, whats the point of getting a degree if you are 200k in debt by the time you are out?
Better off doing two years at community college to knock out the gen-eds and then transfer to a 4 year state school to finish out a major. Lets face it; bull **** like sociology, english literature, and history is the same whether you're at a community college or hahvid.
 

SHNXX

macrumors 68000
Oct 2, 2013
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Who would've thought that increasing demand without increasing supply would result in higher prices?

Who would've guessed that by subsidizing college and graduate degrees that you'd get more of them and thus degree inflation.

Hardly surprising.
 
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AlliFlowers

Contributor
Jan 1, 2011
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L.A. (Lower Alabama)
it's a mess, hurts as hell she is "undecided" about what she wants to major in

Try to convince her to do a few years of military service while she's deciding. It will give her the chance to save up for a degree, while building an actual resume.

I encourage all my undecided students to go this route. Of course, I encourage the ones who have decided, that ROTC is still a great option in college.
 

impulse462

macrumors 68000
Jun 3, 2009
1,697
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What? She's undecided? But doesn't everybody who goes to USC major in partying?? :D
there are definitely smart people at USC, but the ones who travel up here for football games sort of fit the stereotype. i'm not complaining though, those parties are awesome and most of the students are pretty chill.

"university of spoiled children" is overblown too imo.
 
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ucfgrad93

macrumors P6
Aug 17, 2007
17,543
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Colorado
Better off doing two years at community college to knock out the gen-eds and then transfer to a 4 year state school to finish out a major. Lets face it; bull **** like sociology, english literature, and history is the same whether you're at a community college or hahvid.
Agreed. That is how I did it.
 

thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
6,671
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And in ten years the kid with the plumber's license will be making $150,000/yr while the kid with the $150,000 bachelor's might have 50% of his student loan paid off.
Where do you get that figure? I've seen claims of over $100k before, but bls data doesn't seem to support it. It places the median at $50k, which isn't bad if you're single and live somewhere far away from California and New York. I suspect someone making $150k/yr is qualified to oversee significant plumbing renovations. It's probably not the average career trajectory for that occupation.


yeah, looking at colleges with the daughter and the ones we would like (USC) are way out of reach, whats the point of getting a degree if you are 200k in debt by the time you are out?
That's why I usually suggest the UC system. It's much cheaper. If she can qualify for scholarships and state grants, she shouldn't have significant debt at the end of it. My only other suggestion is to become good at writing essays as early as possible, because a lot of interesting opportunities require a short essay.
 
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impulse462

macrumors 68000
Jun 3, 2009
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Better off doing two years at community college to knock out the gen-eds and then transfer to a 4 year state school to finish out a major. Lets face it; bull **** like sociology, english literature, and history is the same whether you're at a community college or hahvid.
Agreed. That is how I did it.
I wouldn't be too sure. I can't speak for sociology, but english literature and history taught at a CC and a top 20 school is definitely worlds apart. Sure, the materials you read (famous works of literature) and history of course are the same, but the way that information is interpreted and presented does vary wildly depending on where you took the class. The type of class discussions, assignments, and papers would definitely have have way higher standards at the latter choice. The difference would probably be less at say Harvard vs WashU.

It's literally the same thing as a more STEM class (like chemistry for example). General chemistry curriculum is the same everywhere but the way its taught varies wildly depending on the institution. I know this example is specific to chemistry, but studying chemistry at Berkeley (which has its separate college for chemistry, the CoC as we call it) or Stanford or Harvard (probably due to the multiple nobel laureates in chemistry from these schools) is way different compared to toe nail state. I'm sure you guys would agree with that. But I'm arguing that the difference in the way chemistry is taught is more similar to the differences in the way english literature and history are taught at the aforementioned schools.
 
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Populism

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2014
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a summer job can't possibly pay for a degree any longer.
God I hope you are making a joke. Seriously. Please tell me you are kidding, because "a summer job" was never meant to pay for a college degree.

I'd mention the time when some of us worked a full-time in the summer, and then an on-campus plus an off-campus during the year to pay part of our tuition, and take a student loan for the rest. But then the Safe Spacers would go for "likes" with their Grandpa Simpson Kids These Days wit.

Is there anything, even just one itsy bitty thing, that Liberals don't think should be affordable with a minimum wage summer job?

Jesus Christ.
 
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jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2013
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Try to convince her to do a few years of military service while she's deciding. It will give her the chance to save up for a degree, while building an actual resume.

I encourage all my undecided students to go this route. Of course, I encourage the ones who have decided, that ROTC is still a great option in college.
I have a DD214. No way and I ever going to her to Join , her GPA is 3.8 right now with mostly AP classes . The amount of women who get raped in the service us a shame do not thanks .
 

AlliFlowers

Contributor
Jan 1, 2011
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L.A. (Lower Alabama)
I have a DD214. No way and I ever going to her to Join , her GPA is 3.8 right now with mostly AP classes . The amount of women who get raped in the service us a shame do not thanks .
Send her to college on your dime for the first two years. Have her do AFROTC while she's there. Much safer. But just because it worked for me doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
 
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thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
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she migh do CC for the first two years & see how things fly from there.
Depending on your major, it may not save as much time or money as you might think. For state based schools in California assuming she wants to graduate within 2 years of transfer, see assist.org for a complete list for any given state school, major, and community college pairing in California. Complete everything on that list. It's advisable to complete the entire list, which may be difficult attending 2 semesters per term for 2 years at roughly 15 units per term. You can do some things to significantly cut costs. As I mentioned she could probably get full tuition at one of the UCs, and in most cases you can find significantly cheaper housing arrangements off campus. Also try to take advantage of things like minority scholarships (which do exist) as they will help with residual costs. There are other hacks. For example if she can remain on your health insurance, you can typically waive out of any student plan or pay a mitigated fee for access to any on campus health services.

Note that if you qualify in terms of income, most colleges will waive application fees. Doing that would also allow for a better cost analysis. I think it would be a lot less than you expect. Private schools tend to be a waste of money unless they offer full tuition.

The tldr of this is while most colleges won't offer enough to cover all expenses according to their cost estimate, she can probably get a lot covered and find cheaper alternatives to many other aspects, and know that it can require significant planning to actually shave off 2 years by way of community college transfer.
 
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jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2013
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Depending on your major, it may not save as much time or money as you might think. For state based schools in California assuming she wants to graduate within 2 years of transfer, see assist.org for a complete list for any given state school, major, and community college pairing in California. Complete everything on that list. It's advisable to complete the entire list, which may be difficult attending 2 semesters per term for 2 years at roughly 15 units per term. You can do some things to significantly cut costs. As I mentioned she could probably get full tuition at one of the UCs, and in most cases you can find significantly cheaper housing arrangements off campus. Also try to take advantage of things like minority scholarships (which do exist) as they will help with residual costs. There are other hacks. For example if she can remain on your health insurance, you can typically waive out of any student plan or pay a mitigated fee for access to any on campus health services.

Note that if you qualify in terms of income, most colleges will waive application fees. Doing that would also allow for a better cost analysis. I think it would be a lot less than you expect. Private schools tend to be a waste of money unless they offer full tuition.

The tldr of this is while most colleges won't offer enough to cover all expenses according to their cost estimate, she can probably get a lot covered and find cheaper alternatives to many other aspects, and know that it can require significant planning to actually shave off 2 years by way of community college transfer.
thanks for the help :)
 

thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
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thanks for the help :)
No problem. Feel free to ask questions. Also note that the stuff I've mentioned holds for all UCs including Berkeley. The more competitive schools and majors tend to require every item on their list if you want to transfer. IThat's why I suggest planning even if she goes the community college route. Also I didn't mention cal states because the UC system is more highly subsidized even if tuition is technically higher with zero aid.
 
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kapolani

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2011
261
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USA
I didn't have money to go to college right after high school.

I enlisted in the military. Went to night school when I could. Got money from the GI Bill.

I went to two years community college to cut down on costs. Transferred to a 4 year school. Interned summers to get money to supplement my GI Bill and student loans.

I got out of school with about $15000 in student loans.

You don't have to go to Ivy League schools to make six figures a year.

I'm tired of hearing people bitch and moan about having 100k in student loans because they decided to get a liberal arts degree designing safe spaces and can't get a job to pay off their loans.

Don't go to school for what you love - go to school to pay the bills and do what you love as a hobby.
 
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