Growing Wealth Disparity, An Explanation

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by itcheroni, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. itcheroni, Oct 23, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2011

    itcheroni macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    I personally believe OWS and the economic aspect of the Tea Party are pretty much angry over many of the same issues. I've seen some people on this board express the idea that anyone who isn't rich and connect who also supports the idea of the free market is being duped. I disagree.

    The following is a good explanation of my views. I think monetary policy has and will create larger distortions and inequalities than any tax policy or legislation.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-wealth-inequality-america-understanding-source

     
  2. Shrink macrumors G3

    Shrink

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  3. mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    #3
    I didn't bother reading past the part where left ideologies included "punishing success." Not a very unbiased source you have there.

    Not that you claimed otherwise.
     
  4. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #4
    Well, I did manage to read through the whole thing. To summarize:

    The fluid money supply, meaning fiat currency not backed by a nominally fixed physical base, such as gold, has a distinct effect on the economy and people's lives. The fiat currency is controlled by a large (semi-private) entity whose adjustments to the money supply cause inflation, recession and misery. No other factors should be considered when analyzing the economy. Fiat currency is the root cause of all our economic problems and must be addressed immediately or we will all die horrible deaths.

    More or less.
     
  5. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #5
    Brilliant summary!

    The only thing that I'd add is that Arkady, whoever it is, is horribly condescending and totally ignores the green revolution, overpopulation and human nature.
     
  6. bassfingers macrumors 6502

    bassfingers

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    #6
    Well they certainly don't reward success.

    In a liberal's world, your best reward to work ratio would come from being as crazy-super lazy as the system allows. Which I would consider rewarding laziness. So, unless you are rewarding all behavior (which is a silly possibility), then you must be punishing another in comparison.

    hardly biased
     
  7. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #7
    That's really not how the economics of the situation work. The "liberal" solution is actually vastly more cost-effective. Do you have any idea how much more expensive it is to leave the homeless on the street vs. providing them shelter, especially as they age? We as a society can spend a small amount of money to have them "rewarded" with basic-level care, or we can spend a massive amount of money by unloading the problem onto paramedics, police, prisons and the emergency room.
     
  8. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #8
    Do you actually believe this?
     
  9. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #9
    what is the liberal solution? I ask neither rhetorically, nor for a regurgitation of what the liberal solution is not.
     
  10. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #10
    Sounds like [more] welfare to me, which is basically paying people who for whatever reason aren't looking after themselves to be less of a nuisance to the rest of society that is.
     
  11. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #11
    And in the case of healthcare provided by Iscariot results in a system that is far, far cheaper per capita, more equitable, and has vastly superior outcomes such as infant mortality and longevity. That terrible, terrible "welfare" you have been conditioned to shun even when and it is your best interests. How horrific it is.
     
  12. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #12
    Itcheroni,

    So, is the monetary policy just hitting the middle-class? How does it affect the wealthy? It would seem that inflation should hurt them too, just not as much, but instead they've seen fairly consistent gains.

    This doesn't seem to be in the article.
     
  13. itcheroni, Oct 23, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011

    itcheroni thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    Wealthy people keep their wealth in savings, which the article does mention. Savings can take the form of assets like stocks and other investments, which can shield from inflation. If you look at the DOW in dollars across 80 years, it looks like it's always going up. But if you look at the DOW priced in gold, it is merely going up and down in cycles of 15-20 years. Inflation hits the middle class and poor much harder because they either can't save anything or usually save cash.

    An important questions is where does purchasing power come from? When the Fed buys toxic assets it just enters a number into a computer and they suddenly have the ability to buy those toxic assets with dollars that didn't exist before. It is like all the dollars out in the world is a punch bowl and any new dollars created without any goods or services to back it up is like adding water. The Fed is using purchasing power to bail out banks and buy terrible assets without having to produce anything. A million middle class people could work their ass off for a year producing goods and services and not make a trillion dollars, but the Fed can create that in a few keystrokes. And all those dollars, whether made by a person producing a good or service or by the Fed, in the end will be chasing the amount of goods and services available. The OWSers are correct in that wealth is being transfered but they are incorrect in claiming it is the tax structure.
     
  14. acidfast7 macrumors 65816

    acidfast7

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    #14
    I've actually lived in a country with one of smallest wealth disparities. And, I can assure you that if you lived there, you'd have a different set of complaints.

    People with a PhD degree actively working in biomedical research made the same amount of money as people stocking shelves at the grocer or cashiers at IKEA.

    Personally, I loved it and would have enjoy living there for a few more years, but the same people complaining about wealth disparity in America would be complaining about the absence of incentive in regions where wealth parity exists.

    Until you've lived under both societies, I wouldn't favor one over the other.
     
  15. bassfingers macrumors 6502

    bassfingers

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    #15
    We should be taking care of them with charities. Unfortunately, we've become so conditioned to "the government will take care of it" that we as a culture don't participate in charitable giving anymore
     
  16. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #16
    Charities do not have the ability to take care of all these people, not even close. I know you live in a world of ideals, but reality is never ideal. "Should", "would", and "could" are all wishful thinking, they are not reality. I prefer to deal with situations as they exist, not as I wish they were. It works a lot better. Give it a try.
     
  17. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #17
    To the extent that this picture of debt is part of the rationale behind this model of the wealth distribution problem, how much does data actually support it?

    Viz... consumer debt is going down, not up. Particularly, the biggest cuts were coming from highly indebted individuals (not the affluent/rich).
     
  18. bassfingers macrumors 6502

    bassfingers

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    #18
    And believing that a group of politicians can effectively distribute the wealth of america isn't idealistic? Pffff. Look at how out of control they've gotten with the limited power the constitution originally gave them. It's much more reasonable to rely on the good will of individual people than the power hungry celebrities that run our country
     
  19. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #19
    In an ideal world, I'd probably agree with you. This being the world we've got, I'm most interested in helping people and saving money on my taxes. This is one of those situations where I can get both at the same time, with the added bonus of freeing up congestion in the emergency room should myself or my family require emergency services. As a double bonus, the money we'd save on taxes can be directed to the charities of our choice.
     
  20. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #20
    Which country was that? Because I'm inclined not to believe you....
     
  21. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #21
    before we had "the government will take care of it", we relied on the idea of charitable giving to care for the poor.......the failure of charitable giving to satisfactorily deal with the problem was the driving force behind turning to the government
     
  22. bassfingers macrumors 6502

    bassfingers

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    #22
    "Turning to the government" is an awfully nice way to describe a massive unconstitutional power-grab.

    And how's "turning to the government" worked out for the poor? The government recklessly spent all of its money. On what? the failing postal service. amtrack. federal education. earmarks. and entitlement programs that enslave the poor.

    "You're welcome, poor people"
    signed, our bleeding heart government
     
  23. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

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    #23
    And that's exactly what the article is saying. People just don't give a damn anymore, and will just accept whatever is spoon-fed them. Wait for the movie, but don't expect it to have any facts.
     
  24. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #24
    lol....sorry your "charitable giving" idea turned out to be a historical failure.

    According to your many comments about them, the poor seem to be living at ease and great comfort now thanks to government programs, so certainly your own answer to your question would have to be "much better than during the days of charitable giving"
     
  25. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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