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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
I have to agree with others, if Apple wanted to _not_ include the worthless EarPods and charging brick, that would lower the price of the iPhone, and I would be perfectly fine with that. Because almost everybody has access to charging bricks, lightning cables, etc. I’m willing to believe most consumers would have no issue with not including accessories, if that means it would lower the price of the iPhone, considering that the majority of iPhone owners, already have access to other chargers via other hardware they have from Apple.
 

thadoggfather

macrumors P6
Original poster
Oct 1, 2007
15,539
16,253
I have to agree with others, if Apple wanted to not include the worthless EarPods and charging brick, that would lower the price of the iPhone, and I would be perfectly fine with that. Because almost everybody has access to charging bricks, lightning cables, etc. I’m willing to believe most consumers would have no issue with not including accessories, if that means it would lower the price of the iPhone, considering that the majority of iPhone owners, already have access to other chargers via other hardware they have from Apple.

But retina macbook pro's 2016 onward no longer come with the extended power cord, and yet, I see no drop in the price?

gen 2 Apple Pencil comes with 1 tip rather than 2 , no price drop.

No headphone adapter anymore no price drop

What am I missing here?
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
What am I missing here?

You’re Missing that when the Series one Apple Watch was released, it did _not_ include the charging brick, and had cheaper packaging, which reflected a cheaper price point.

So, did Apple charge more for the lighting adapter when that was included in the box? Did that reflect any price change when they stopped including it? My point is, if they stop including the lightning cable, charging brick and worthless EarPods, there undoubtedly would be a price drop for something that they can’t charge the consumer for if they’re not including those accessories as a mark-up. Case in point.
 
Last edited:

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,444
22,999
But we are talking about a product that there are billions of already in existence. This isn't some toaster oven or whatever that has a production run of 50k units. There are literally billions of these in existence, and the environment would be much better off if those who are buying their first phone would just buy a little charging brick.

You don't need to create 500 million charging bricks a year just because 5 million people bought their first iPhone that year (numbers are made up but you get the point).

1. Apple devices on average, last 4 years before being retired. This means old devices are refurbished, handed down, or sold to another user. These accessories are passed along.

2. iPhone chargers are different from other generic chargers. Apple added a few resistors to the charger to indicate it's an Apple charger. Blame Apple for not adhering to a standard.

There aren't billions of Apple chargers lying around doing nothing. This is an environmental problem that Apple helped to create. "This accessory may not be supported" error message is intended to persuade consumers to buy Apple or MFI chargers.
 

noobinator

macrumors 604
Jun 19, 2009
7,226
6,791
Los Angeles, CA
Apple will not drop prices if they stop including accessories. They've never done this before, so why would they start now? Those accessories cost them in total a few pennies per phone. If they drop prices ever it won't be because of this.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
But we are talking about a product that there are billions of already in existence. This isn't some toaster oven or whatever that has a production run of 50k units. There are literally billions of these in existence, and the environment would be much better off if those who are buying their first phone would just buy a little charging brick.

You don't need to create 500 million charging bricks a year just because 5 million people bought their first iPhone that year (numbers are made up but you get the point).
That doesn't change the part that products basically come with what they need to function. I mean there are many many tires available all over the place, but cars are still sold with new tires on them.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
Apple will not drop prices if they stop including accessories. They've never done this before, so why would they start now? .

False. When the Series one Apple Watch was released, to keep it more entry-level versus the other Apple Watch models that were more expensive, they stopped including the charging brick, and it had cheaper packaging, thus resulting in a cheaper price point.
 

noobinator

macrumors 604
Jun 19, 2009
7,226
6,791
Los Angeles, CA
False. When the Series one Apple Watch was released to keep it more entry-level versus the other Apple Watch models that were more expensive, they stopped including the charging brick, and it had cheaper packaging, thus resulting in a cheaper price point.

That's not the same thing. The watch is different in many ways, it's not just one model with accessories and the other without. I'm talking about taking away accessories and subsequently reducing the price.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
That's not the same thing. .

This is what you said:

Apple will not drop prices if they stop including accessories.

It is very much the same thing, as it’s a direct reflection of exactly what you said Apple won’t do and they did exactly that. The Apple Watch may be a different entity from the iPhone, but a perfect example that they don’t have to charge the consumer more for something if it’s not necessary to reflect a cheaper price point. That’s exactly what the Series one Apple Watch did in that sense, and easily could be implemented for the iPhone.
 

pika2000

Suspended
Jun 22, 2007
5,587
4,902
The guy is deeply concerned about the physical size of the retail box now not just the physical size of the charger (hey, um, dude the 18w isn’t 29w colossal or anything). Good lord!

“People who care” because fast charging a massive battery is now an estoric niche desire. Guarantee you his travel bags and home are littered with fast chargers lol.

(Autocorrect Typo in title, inserting unneeded word — whoops)

Hope you’re reading this too View attachment 821925
I don’t know if you have any experience in shipping or whatnot, but adding a few grams and/or cm per product can mean a lot when you are shipping millions of them in terms of efficiency and cost.

And Apple is seemingly the kind of company that is keeping these kind of things really strict. Considering their end goal is a completely wireless iPhone, they probably didn’t see any point in developing and inserting a fast charger into the production line. Heck, I expected they switched the USB-A cable-end and charger into USB-C when they were making a big deal out of it on their MacBooks, but they didn’t.

So there you go. You can keep complaining about it without anything changing, or just deal with it. To me, complaining about it is just a waste of my time so I’ll just deal with it. Having or not having a fast charger doesn’t change my behavior anyway as I just charge my phone overnight.
 

zorinlynx

macrumors G3
May 31, 2007
8,144
17,475
Florida, USA
This may be an unpopular opinion but I don’t think phone manufacturers should be bundling a charging plug of any kind (fast or otherwise) with handsets. I might change my phone every 2-3 years but I can still use my first iPhone charger from 8 years ago. The others I’ve received in box since then are just e-waste.

E-waste? You're just throwing them away? WTF.

In my case, getting a new charger with each phone upgrade has resulted in simply having a charger at each location I might want to charge my phone, so I never have to actually carry a charger around.

I have one in the bedroom, one in the office, one in the kitchen, and one at my desk at work.

Who the heck throws out a perfectly good charger?
 

andiwm2003

macrumors 601
Mar 29, 2004
4,382
454
Boston, MA
I also prefer having a new charger, cable and headphones with my phone. not all of us have them readily available. in the case of headphones this are my first and only lightning ear buds. without them i would have to go out and buy some for my next trip.
also i don't actually care much about the fast charger. I have chargers in my house, car and office. So there is little chance that I need to fast charge my phone. And most likely this would be needed where I have only regular chargers around unless I replace all of my chargers with a fast charger. Just on the off chance I would need it at some point. It would be cheaper and more flexible to bring a powerbank along. I mean even every airplane has outlets in the seat these days. and there are plenty of outlets in airports and hotels as well.
 

puma1552

Suspended
Nov 20, 2008
5,559
1,947
Lets not blame it on environmental concerns, of all things, for why they dont. Come on are you kidding?

If apple really cared, they wouldnt have parts so solidified on the macbook pro to only have like 3 service parts: the board, the top lid, and bottom case. They also wouldnt ship a retail package, it would be just the phone in an egg rate recyclable container.

Etc. etc.

You misread my post. I didn't say Apple cared, I said I personally think it's a huge waste. IF Apple wanted to be so green, then they would agree with me and stop shipping this junk with every phone.

1. Apple devices on average, last 4 years before being retired. This means old devices are refurbished, handed down, or sold to another user. These accessories are passed along.

2. iPhone chargers are different from other generic chargers. Apple added a few resistors to the charger to indicate it's an Apple charger. Blame Apple for not adhering to a standard.

There aren't billions of Apple chargers lying around doing nothing. This is an environmental problem that Apple helped to create. "This accessory may not be supported" error message is intended to persuade consumers to buy Apple or MFI chargers.

Plenty of people, myself included, have tons of these chargers and cables lying around, even after having all the ones you would need. Also, people never include the chargers or cables when they trade in their phone, since they aren't required to at most places. Tons of people have tons of these things laying around.

That doesn't change the part that products basically come with what they need to function. I mean there are many many tires available all over the place, but cars are still sold with new tires on them.

So we should just keep doing the same thing because that's the way it's always been even if it doesn't really make sense to keep doing it that way? OK.
 
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thadoggfather

macrumors P6
Original poster
Oct 1, 2007
15,539
16,253
I don’t know if you have any experience in shipping or whatnot, but adding a few grams and/or cm per product can mean a lot when you are shipping millions of them in terms of efficiency and cost.

And Apple is seemingly the kind of company that is keeping these kind of things really strict. Considering their end goal is a completely wireless iPhone, they probably didn’t see any point in developing and inserting a fast charger into the production line. Heck, I expected they switched the USB-A cable-end and charger into USB-C when they were making a big deal out of it on their MacBooks, but they didn’t.

So there you go. You can keep complaining about it without anything changing, or just deal with it. To me, complaining about it is just a waste of my time so I’ll just deal with it. Having or not having a fast charger doesn’t change my behavior anyway as I just charge my phone overnight.

I would argue the bump from 16gb to 32gb happened BECAUSE of complaining, and now the 64gb standard where we're at. And competition

Complaining might not ensure results, that's fine I haven't invested much time in the matter on a personal level... but not complaining will absolutely ensure no results.

Competition includes the fast charger. So whats the missing ingredient? Backlash.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
So we should just keep doing the same thing because that's the way it's always been even if it doesn't really make sense to keep doing it that way? OK.
Not really sure that "it doesn't really make sense" given that it still makes fairly good sense.
 

s15119

macrumors 68000
Nov 20, 2010
1,856
1,714
I have worried about how fast my iPhone charges exactly zero time. If I needed a faster charger, I'd go by one. Non issue.
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
I have worried about how fast my iPhone charges exactly zero time. If I needed a faster charger, I'd go by one. Non issue.

This. Consumers don’t care about how ‘fast’ their phone charges, not when do they have access to a 12 V charger in their vehicle, the multiple chargers they likely have in their household and even wireless chargers that are now in homes, etc. Fast chargers are nice to have, but not a necessity, and I will gladly purchase one if I needed it.
 

dumastudetto

macrumors 601
Aug 28, 2013
4,990
7,130
Los Angeles, USA
If I could make a healthy living by making excuses for any company's shortcomings, sign me up. I'd quit my day job.

You certainly couldn't make a good living making excuses for Apple's shortcomings. You'd be lucky to have one story every three years. Gruber is popular because he thinks deeply about these issues. He's about as far away from an Apple apologist as can be.
 

minik

macrumors demi-god
Jun 25, 2007
2,107
1,538
somewhere
I charge my iPhone XS and iPad mini 2 with the 5W charger and tend to reserve a higher wattage charger for my iPad Pro. Fast charging is never a concern to me as my iPhone battery lasts all day.
 

TheIntruder

macrumors 68000
Jul 2, 2008
1,697
1,191
Attempting to ascribe Apple's decision to bundle a 5W adapter to one specific reason is oversimplifying things.

They've probably considered various factors (yes, with cost among them) and come to the conclusion that it still suits the needs of the majority of users, as well as meeting Apple's own goals.

Would it be nice if they bundled a higher wattage adapter? Certainly. And for those who do desire such a thing, there are many third-party options to satisfy that need, along with portable power banks, 12v car adapters, wireless chargers etc.

Some may consider them throwaways, but the 5W "cube" is a high-quality adapter. It's compact, well-designed, well-made, and reliable. I see plenty of them is use, by laymen who don't know Watt from What, or Amp from And, and they aren't disturbed, even when told there are other, faster options.

I have other third-party adapters in my arsenal, but one of my spare 5W cubes serves perfectly mated to my Watch charging puck. The S0 did not include an adapter, and never draws more than 0.5A when charging, so the cube is ideally suited to the purpose, and did not go to waste. I doubt that the the newer Watches make any greater demands, and even if they did, the tiny batteries help mitigate the cube's perceived shortcoming.

If slow charging one's iPhone was truly a sin (and not actually a benefit), then I'm puzzled as to why so many are attracted to wireless charging, which is both slower and less efficient than wired charging. The chief benefit -- convenience -- is highly dependent on circumstance, and ignores the objective compromises involved.

I'm not a regular reader of Gruber, but I don't see any overwhelming bias. His reasoning can be questioned, as with any other individual blogger, but he makes a lot of valid criticism of Apple as well.

I consider him more balanced than Dilger on AI, or The Macalope, whose pieces very clearly serve a specific bias, even if the latter is considered a parody.
 
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panerista

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,679
10,516
Austin, TX
I want a better charger, but I have old iPad chargers. I understand why people want better chargers but I think a lot of this 5W complaining is a bit overblown.
 
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