Guns and Heathcare...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by AP_piano295, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #1
    They are seperate issues.

    I've recently endured about five seperate speeches from conservative "friends"/aquaintances that sound roughly like this.

    "First they'll socialize medicine and the next thing you know they'll be at my door trying to take my guns."

    Now the thing that drives me nuts about this is how un-connected these two issues are. I am probably as liberal as almost anyone can be about Heathcare. However I am not anti gun, I actually like guns and enjoy shooting. My anti gun feelings extend to wanting a ban on assault weapons and desiring improved screening of those who want to buy a gun (my sister goes to Virginia Tech...).

    So I would like to get a count how many people in PRSI support Heathcare overhall and are generally pro gun ownership?
     
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #2
    I support healthcare overhaul and am pro-gun ownership. I don't support the current bill/law though as its unconstitutional to force a US citizen to buy private health insurance with no alternatives, especially when these companies are generally not allowed to compete over state lines.
     
  3. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #4
    1) Pro healthcare reform/universal healthcare
    2) Okay with registered guns with ballistics information on file

    But let's face it, this will not sway an ultraconservative, card-carrying NRA member. To them its all a slippery slope towards communism.
     
  4. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    #5
    I think issues become linked in people's heads because of how common party platforms are marketed. We're not allowed to have independent opinions, issue by issue but we must identify as "Democrat" or "Republican" or now, "Teaparty" -- and those identities come with a bundle of philosophies that everyone must adhere to. If you are pro-gun than that automatically means you are a Republican to many people. If you are pro-healthcare reform, you are a socialist Democrat. Since its assumed if you have one belief that has been marketed as part of a bundle for one party or the other -- than its assumed you adhere to all the beliefs of that party.

    It's ridiculous and part of the problem of polarization we are currently experiencing in this country. Yes, I'm pro-healthcare reform and I don't have a problem with someone legally owning a firearm. Depending upon which opinion is asked first, that means I'm either a Democrat or Republican on a given day to the person who asked that opinion.
     
  5. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #6
    Probably should make a poll.
     
  6. Hmac macrumors 68020

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    #7
    I am not a republican.

    I support improved firearms education, enhanced background checks. I'm opposed to assault rifle restrictions and handgun bans if those other two issues are addressed.

    I am in favor of health care reform, opposed to "universal health care" (whatever that is). I am opposed to the current health care bill and especially the method that was used to ram it through. I am not opposed to the Democratic Party in general, but I sincerely hope that this legislative boondoggle comes back to bite them in the ass bigtime.
     
  7. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #8
    The chair is against the wall... the chair is against the wall...
     
  8. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #9
    But there is an alternative. Either buy private health insurance or buy into the insurance the government uses. I don't quite understand how this is unconstitutional. My curiosity is if they take the "force" buying private insurance out and people don't have to buy insurance, when those ppl get ill and have a big hospital bill who will they expect to pay for it? Goes right back to you and I paying for someone who doesn't want to buy health insurance in higher premiums. Nice little cycle..

    I support the HCR and am pro-gun, however I don't particularly think that ppl should be able to buy fully automatic assault rifles for "protection".
     
  9. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #10
    You're opposed to something you don't know about?
     
  10. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #11
    There is no public option, so I don't know what alternative you are talking about. Its going to still be corrupt private corps in bed with government. I don't particularly like the force buy system, especially when we are not allowing companies to compete over state lines. If we are going this route a single payer system would have been just fine.

    The only concessions that the insurance companies had to make were policies that should have been adopted without a law being passed... okay guys hand us 40 million new customers and we promise we won't keep dropping people to die for pre-existing conditions.
     
  11. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #12
    It's a shame the Republicans didn't come up with that wonderful idea. Yes, you're right, we should have a public option or UHC. I wonder why the GOP didn't push for that... :rolleyes:
     
  12. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #13
    If there is a clause in the Democrat Health Care tome that allows government paid guns can you let me know? I might be swayed on the legislation if it provides mandatory payment of or compensation for ownership... that's an angle I hadn't considered but thanks just the same for the idea...
     
  13. AP_piano295 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #14
    ...Ok
     
  14. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #15
    Good grief.

    Voting?
     
  15. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #16
    The democrats are the ones who bombed the public option, they have no republican votes regardless.
     
  16. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #17
    That's true. It's the Democrats fault we don't have a PO. Though it would have been nice of the other side hadn't been lying about what a PO meant for the last year but still...
     
  17. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #18
    Yes, the Democrats didn't have the votes or the balls to do what we ALL agree should have been done, but then again, it was the republicans who LIED ABOUT HEALTH CARE REFORM.

    Who lied about death panels?
    Who continues to lie about death panels? (Hannity yesterday)
    Who lied about socialism?
    Who lied about overthrow of Constitution?
    Who lied about deem and pass?
    Who lied about self executing rule (used by GOP)?
    Who lied about affect on Medicare?
    Who lied about EVERYTHING??

    GOP? Ding ding ding...

    Right wing media?

    Ding ding ding
     
  18. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #19
    I don't think for the reasons of propaganda the two are distinct though. The issue of guns has long been mixed up with one of 'freedom'. The debate about guns has always been framed in terms of if one could rather than if one should. The same with healthcare. The opponents of it are absolutely desperate to frame the debate into it being "unconstitutional", "they didn't get to vote for it", "it was rammed down their throats" - i.e. that it's "forcing" americans into something against their will. In both cases it's superficial, emotive, and easy to argue without having to delve into more sophisticated discussion about the contents of the healthcare bill or the statistics and research into gun crime, suicide rates, and accidental firearm injury.
     
  19. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #20
    Well, it is about freedom especially when you have the words shall not be infringed in the constitution when talking about my right to personally keep and bear arms. I'm very interested to read the Chicago gun case opinion because this'll open the floodgates if state governments cannot have any regulation regarding firearm ownership and possession. Two states in this union explicitly prohibit you, a US citizen (not you personally ;) ), from carrying a gun on your person. Bearing arms if you will. Does that jell with words shall not be infringed in my second amendment? I think not. But maybe the Supreme Court will say the second amendment limits the fed's power to legislate the gun thing. So states can do as they please in their jurisdiction. Sounds like a state's rights sort of thing, don't it? I'm especially interested in reading Justice Scalia's opinion on this case considering he's always been the self-describing state's rights champion but I'll bet he personally and politically disagrees with firearms laws like Chicago's.
     
  20. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #21
    i object to being forced to buy health insurance
     
  21. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #22
    Well, you're not forced to buy it. You're just penalized for economic inactivity.

    ^ As if that's a good thing. :rolleyes:
     
  22. scottness macrumors 65816

    scottness

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    #23
    I would like the option not to buy health insurance. From what I understand, I will be penalized for not buying. That, and I have no problem with guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens--and not felons.
     
  23. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #24
    isn't that against the liberal stance? to penalize those that are inactive economically? what about the handouts? lol
     
  24. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #25
    The problem isn't that health care reform is the first step to the gub'ment taking my guns, it's that the gub'ment is going to take away my God-given right to put a hole in a man by taking him away, fixing him up, and billing me for the patch job next April. I won't put up with no muslim libral taking away my Second Amendment guarantee that when I shoot a man, he stays shot.
     

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