Guns in the home raise suicide, homicide risk, review confirms

lannister80

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http://www.nbcnews.com/health/guns-home-raise-suicide-homicide-risk-review-confirms-2D11950306

Having guns in the home triples the risk of suicide and doubles the risk of homicide, researchers reported on Monday.

Their review of 15 studies considered high quality confirms a clear association between gun ownership and violent death in the United States, where more than a third of the population owns firearms.

“Obtaining a firearm not only endangers those living in the home but also imposes substantial costs on the community.”
New data is always good.
 

citizenzen

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Mar 22, 2010
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That should be a statement, not a question. ;)

I am far more concerned about Homicide than Suicide.

Suicide is free will (segue to another thread), but Society does not/cannot endorse it.
I agree with you regarding suicide (euthanasia) as an alternative to terminal illness/end of life issues.

But suicide is often driven by a moments of profound but temporary despair.

Society doesn't condone giving into that despair because we understand that once those episodes pass, one rediscovers the desire to continue living.
 

nebo1ss

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Jun 2, 2010
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There was a rather unfortunate case recently where a Father accidently shot and killed his Step-Daughter who had sneeked out for the evening and was sneeking back in. Its just another potential risk of guns in the home.

I assume he thought it was someone breaking in his home. Although making a call to shoot first and check later says a lot about the situation.
 

Droidrage729

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Sep 28, 2012
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/us/19chemical.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 I remember when this was occurring in the us a lot there were no movements to ban.......detergent or....... Cars in fact I think tall buildings and prescription medication are still around. Blaming guns for suicide makes as much sense as blaming guns for starting wars. The person holding the gun is making the decisions the gun doesn't leap into the persons hand use common sense. I have a bunch of guns all of which are locked in a huge heavy secure safe.
 

iJohnHenry

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Mar 22, 2008
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I agree with you regarding suicide (euthanasia) as an alternative to terminal illness/end of life issues.

But suicide is often driven by a moments of profound but temporary despair.

Society doesn't condone giving into that despair because we understand that once those episodes pass, one rediscovers the desire to continue living.
We would require another thread to delve into this topic.

There are many nuances to uncover in Societies disdain for Suicide.
 

bradl

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2008
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That's your first reaction?

You're more concerned about "gun bashing" than suicides and homicides?

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Yes. New data is good.

Funny how it keeps coming out on the side of guns in the home being a danger to personal safety.
But..but… "shall not be infringed!"

:rolleyes:

Seriously, though.. this is good data to weigh options on. I really do worry about the rise in suicide/homicide in the home from this.. to the point where I had to turn the local news off last night because there were two stories regarding this very thing happening in my area; one was to a 4 year old.. my son's age.

I can't and don't want to imagine what could happen.. I just can't.

BL.
 

lannister80

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/us/19chemical.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 I remember when this was occurring in the us a lot there were no movements to ban.......detergent or....... Cars in fact I think tall buildings and prescription medication are still around.
Detergent, cars, and tall buildings are all quite useful in the day to day life of our society. Guns are not. Guns have the worst "danger:utility" ratio of just about anything you can legally get your hands on.

Blaming guns for suicide makes as much sense as blaming guns for starting wars. The person holding the gun is making the decisions the gun doesn't leap into the persons hand use common sense.
Suicides happen in a temporary moment of desperation. The goal is to get the person through that period without killing themselves. Having a gun handy is like having a big red button you can press to instantly kill yourself. Easy to press in a moment of desperation.

So yes, I do blame the presence of guns for many suicides that would not have been successful otherwise.


I have a bunch of guns all of which are locked in a huge heavy secure safe.
Good.
 

elistan

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Jun 30, 2007
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The person holding the gun is making the decisions the gun doesn't leap into the persons hand use common sense. I have a bunch of guns all of which are locked in a huge heavy secure safe.
From what I understand, that doesn't protect you from suicide. (But it does protect others, assuming only you have the ability to unlock it.) If you ever experience an episode of severe acute depression, you still have the ability to quickly access a method of suicide that's 80% to 90% effective. (From Wikipedia, which unfortunately references a journal article behind a paywall.) Of course, you still could attempt suicide by some other method, but since all those other methods are less effective you'd have a greater chance of surviving through the episode of acute severe depression.
 

Technarchy

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May 21, 2012
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Sorta strange that all these guns are laying around, and the USA still has far less suicides than japan which has almost no guns.

Strange how that works.
 

samiwas

macrumors 68000
Aug 26, 2006
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/us/19chemical.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 I remember when this was occurring in the us a lot there were no movements to ban.......detergent or....... Cars in fact I think tall buildings and prescription medication are still around. Blaming guns for suicide makes as much sense as blaming guns for starting wars. The person holding the gun is making the decisions the gun doesn't leap into the persons hand use common sense. I have a bunch of guns all of which are locked in a huge heavy secure safe.
As the person said above, the presence of a gun can change the end result drastically. Let me ask you, do you think a guy who's thinking of robbing a convenience store will have the same motivation whether or not he has a gun?

Same goes for suicide. If some guy had a really bad breakup and is sitting there miserable and thinking his life is over, will having a gun accessible to him change the outcome, as opposed to having a belt to hang himself or a razor to slice his wrists?

Do you think there is no difference?

Sorta strange that all these guns are laying around, and the USA still has far less suicides than japan which has almost no guns.

Strange how that works.
Whoa. So the data proves that having more guns prevents suicides!!!
 

obeygiant

macrumors 601
Jan 14, 2002
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Okay, so "Having guns in the home triples the risk of suicide and doubles the risk of homicide". Then what? where is this going?

Meanwhile in Detroit...

The results of an autopsy completed today on a 4-year-old Detroit boy killed this week confirm that he died of a gunshot wound to the chest.

The death has been ruled a homicide, according to information from the Wayne County Medical Examiner’s Office.

The boy, identified by family as Jamel Witcher Jr., died after he was shot in the chest by his cousin Thursday in a house on Tuxedo Street on Detroit’s west side, police said earlier this week.

According to police, the cousin, a 4-year-old girl, found the gun near a bed, picked it up and shot the boy, although the girl’s father has questioned whether she was big enough to pick up the loaded rifle.

A 66-year-old man and a woman, identified by family for an earlier Free Press story as the children’s grandmother and her husband, were in the home on Tuxedo Street when the shooting happened and are being held by police on unrelated warrants. They have not been charged in connection with the shooting.

The man at home during the shooting told police he and the two 4-year-olds were watching television about 4:40 p.m. Thursday when he heard a loud bang and saw Jamel fall over, according to police.
link

Secure your weapon you ****ing idiot!!
 

LIVEFRMNYC

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Oct 27, 2009
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If someone really wants to kill them self, they will find a way without a gun. Isn't purposely overdosing the most common suicide?
 

lannister80

macrumors 6502
Original poster
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If someone really wants to kill them self, they will find a way without a gun.
Most people only want to kill themselves for a short period of time. If you can get them through that crisis without killing themselves, that's a suicide prevented.

Not having the tools to easily kill yourself is a critical part of getting through that period without actually killing yourself.

Isn't purposely overdosing the most common suicide?
75% of attempts are overdoses/poisoning, but the person survives that type of attempt 97% of the time. So only 3% of poisoning/OD attempts are successful.

Suicide attempts with a gun, however, are successful 90% of the time. 3% success vs 90% success.

2004 stats on actual successful suicides by method:
Firearms: 16,750
Poisoning/OD: 5,800

Even though 193,333 people tried to poison/overdose, only 5,800 succeeded.

Only 18,611 tried to commit suicide by gun (9.6% of the number who tried to OD), yet the actual number of deaths (16,750) is nearly 3x that of ODing.


http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_index.php?idx=119&d=1&w=5&e=28649
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

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I know I posted statistics on this a while back, and IIRC guns accounted for about half of suicides. I'll see if I can find it, and if I can I'll post.
51.6% in 2004.

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html#2004
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
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Oh great another gun bashing thread. :eek:
I'm with you partner, I don't want any bothersome so-called facts to muddle my perception of what it takes to be free. Kind of like Doc Holiday, I want to be prepared for the likes of the Claibornes and Clantons when they appear! :p
 

chown33

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Aug 9, 2009
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I know I posted statistics on this a while back, and IIRC guns accounted for about half of suicides. I'll see if I can find it, and if I can I'll post.
This thread is turning into a virtual duplicate of another one:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1684154&page=3

The suicide issue comes up around post #74 or so.

There's also this thread:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1646401

Both should be a goldmine of reusable citations, links, and well-used arguments.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors 604
Oct 27, 2009
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Most people only want to kill themselves for a short period of time. If you can get them through that crisis without killing themselves, that's a suicide prevented.

Not having the tools to easily kill yourself is a critical part of getting through that period without actually killing yourself.


75% of attempts are overdoses/poisoning, but the person survives that type of attempt 97% of the time. So only 3% of poisoning/OD attempts are successful.

Suicide attempts with a gun, however, are successful 90% of the time. 3% success vs 90% success.

2004 stats on actual successful suicides by method:
Firearms: 16,750
Poisoning/OD: 5,800

Even though 193,333 people tried to poison/overdose, only 5,800 succeeded.

Only 18,611 tried to commit suicide by gun (9.6% of the number who tried to OD), yet the actual number of deaths (16,750) is nearly 3x that of ODing.


http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_index.php?idx=119&d=1&w=5&e=28649
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

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51.6% in 2004.

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html#2004
Thanks for the stats. IMO ... What's to stop someone who lives many stories high in an apartment from jumping if they don't have a gun? Or jumping off a high bridge? I know the psychological fear might be greater but the rate of success is probably similar.
 

iJohnHenry

macrumors P6
Mar 22, 2008
16,505
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On tenterhooks
As they say: "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem".
If only the problems of some were temporary, that could be true.

But it is not.

Speak to someone who is suffering terribly due to a terminal disease for which there is no known cure.

Then there are terminal conditions that show no physical pain. Say, as an extreme example, ALS*.



*Please don't reference Stephen Hawking, for there are still arguments as to whether he has ALS or not.
 
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