Guns- The Good, The Bad, The Ugly, The Stupid

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Huntn, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. Huntn, Oct 8, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019

    Huntn macrumors P6


    May 5, 2008
    The Misty Mountains
    My attempt at a catchall gun title to limit my future generation of gun related threads.

    How much of this is acceptable to You?

    They just don’t understand how safe guns make them...
    Or maybe they do.

    Updates (This is no where close to being a complete record)
    • June 2029- Added Gun Violence in America Section
    • May 2019- Virginia Beach Municipal Building
    • 28Jun 18- Added Annapolis Newspaper Shooting.
    • 28May18- Added May 2018 Texas and Indiana school shootings.
    • 17 May 18- Added Ponder, Texas Murder Suicide, 5 victims.
    • 24 April18- Added new section, Gun Owners Fight Back
    • April 2018-Waffle House Shooting.
    • 16Feb18- updated with Florida Mass School Shooting
    • 14Nov17- Kids shot in N.California added.
    • 5Nov17- Shooting in small town Texas church.
    • 1Oct17- Deadliest mass shooting in U.S. to date: Las Vegas 50 dead, 400+ wounded.
    • 18Jul17- Added Woman dials 911, shot dead by police.
    • 17Apr17- Added Live Stream link.
    • 6Jan 2017- Added Ft. Lauderdale Airport shooting under Mass shootings.
    • 28Sep16- Added School Shooting Category along with S.Carolina School Shooting.
    • 25July- Added Orlando and Ft Myers Night club shootings.
    • 22Jul- Added unarmed man shot by police to Controversial police Shooting Section.
    • 10Jul16- Added support article under controversial police shootings section.
    • 07Jul16- Added Controversial Police Shooting Section

    Gun statistics in the US
    (added June 2019)
    US Gun 2019 score card:

    Stats through Sept 2018
    Gun incidents- 43396
    Deaths- 11000
    Injuries- 21000
    Children killed or injured- 500
    Teens killed or injured- 2138
    Mass shootings-270
    Officers shot or killed- 223
    Suspects shot or killed by police-1600
    Home invasion- 1500
    Defensive use- 1300
    Accidental- 1200

    Gun violence in America
    • 136,000 gun deaths and injuries per year. How many people/communities are adversely affected by this?
    • Every day, 100 Americans are killed with guns and hundreds more are shot and injured. The effects of gun violence extend far beyond these casualties—gun violence shapes the lives of millions of Americans who witness it, know someone who was shot, or live in fear of the next shooting.

    Impact on Americans

    • 58 percent of American adults or someone they care for have experienced gun violence in their lifetime.31
    • Approximately three million American children witness gun violence every year.32
    Suicide: Gun access increases the risk of suicide by 300%.
    • Nearly two-thirds of gun deaths are suicides.5 The U.S. gun suicide rate is 10 times that of other high-income countries.6
    • Access to a gun increases the risk of death by suicide by three times.7 Gun suicides are concentrated in states with high rates of gun ownership.8
    • Most people who attempt suicide do not die—unless they use a gun. Across all suicide attempts not involving a firearm, less than five percent will result in death.9 But for gun suicides, those statistics are flipped: approximately 85 percent of gun suicide attempts end in death.10
    • White men represent 74 percent of firearm suicide victims in America.11
    Gun homicide
    • One-third of gun deaths are homicides.12 The U.S. gun homicide rate is 25 times that of other high-income countries.13
    • Access to a gun increases the risk of death by homicide by two times.14
    • Gun homicides are concentrated in cities—half of all gun homicides took place in just 127 cities, which represented nearly a quarter of the U.S. population.15 Within these cities, gun homicides are most prevalent in racially segregated neighborhoods with high rates of poverty.16
    • Black Americans represent the majority of gun homicide victims.17 In fact, Black Americans are 10 times more likely than white Americans to die by gun homicide.18
    Children and teens

    • Firearms are the second leading cause of death for American children and teens and the first leading cause of death for Black children and teens.21
    • Nearly 1,700 children and teens die by gun homicide every year.22 For children under the age of 13, these gun homicides most frequently occur in the home and are often connected to domestic or family violence.23
    • Black children and teens are 14 times more likely than white children and teens of the same age to die by gun homicide.24

    Domestic Violence
    • Women in the U.S. are 21 times more likely to be killed with a gun than women in other high-income countries.25
    • In an average month, 52 American women are shot to death by an intimate partner,26 and many more are injured.
    • Nearly one million women alive today have been shot or shot at by an intimate partner.27 Approximately 4.5 million American women alive today have been threatened with a gun by an intimate partner.28
    • Access to a gun in a domestic violence situation makes it five times more likely that a woman will be killed.29
    • Black women are twice as likely to be fatally shot by an intimate partner compared to white women.30
    5 Reasons The NRA Is Wrong

    The next time you hear someone repeating pro-gun NRA propaganda, respond with these five points:

    1. Gun laws save lives. Consider the federal assault weapons ban. After it became law in 1994, gun massacres – defined as instances of gun violence in which six or more people were shot and killed – fell by 37 percent. The number of people dying from mass shootings fell by 43 percent. But when Republicans in Congress let the ban lapse in 2004, gun massacres more than doubled.

    2. The Second Amendment was never intended to permit mass slaughter. When the Constitution was written more than 200 years ago, the framers’ goal was permit a “well-regulated militia,” not to enable Americans to terrorize their communities.

    3. More guns have not, and will not, make us safer.More than 30 studies show that guns are linked to an increased risk for violence and homicide. In 1996, Australia initiated a mandatory buyback program to reduce `the number of guns in private ownership. Their firearm homicide rate fell 42 percent in the seven years that followed.

    4. The vast majority of Americans want stronger gun safety laws. According to Gallup, 96 percent of Americans support universal background checks, 75 percent support a 30-day waiting period for all gun sales, and 70 percent favor requiring all privately owned guns to be registered with the police. Even the vast majority of gun owners are in favor of common-sense gun safety laws.

    5. The National Rifle Association is a special interest group with a stranglehold on the Republican Party. In 2016, the group spent a record $55 million on elections. Their real goal is to protect a few big gun manufacturers who want to enlarge their profits.

    My opinion of the State of Gun USA updated May 2018
    If we were serious about eliminating gun deaths we would ban all guns, but we know this will never happen until new generations come along and finally say you old codgers are off your rockers, enough killing already.

    So instead the intent is to lessen, not eliminate death by gun, so when the next previous law abiding citizen commits a mass shooting he’ll kill 5-10 people before being subdued instead of 10-50. Yes, ten should be the limit on acceptable suffering. :rolleyes:

    Mental health is a huge issues that as far as I can tell, the gun lobby is not serious about, giving it lip service because if done comprehensively, it would be expensive to manage and it would inconvenience average gun owners. The reality is that until gun owners in this country get serious about limiting harm, death by gun will prevail. Keep in mind the group that think death by gun is a necessary price to pay for my 2A freedom.

    Look at this list of school shootings, there always have been school shootings in 1s and 2s. Although the UT, Austin sniper shooting in 1966 resulted in 17 deaths, this was the first, but it was an aberration at the time. In the 1990s it started becoming a more regular occurrence.
    List of School Shootings:

    Then there are mass shootings in general.
    Mass Shootings in the US:
    Studies indicate that the rate at which public mass shootings occur has tripled since 2011. Between 1982 and 2011, a mass shooting occurred roughly once every 200 days. However, between 2011 and 2014 that rate has accelerated greatly with at least one mass shooting occurring every 64 days in the United States.[22]

    So what separates us from the rest of the World? Are we more
    • blood thirsty?
    • Socially sicker?
    • less tolerant?
    • More socially abusive?
    • Mentally ill?
    • Have more access to guns?
    Something has fundamentally changed. Although it can be argued that these type people who snap based on social abuse, is a very small minority of the populace, the gun lobby certainly hang their guns on this fact, the question and debate remains about how much blood are we allowing to flow in support of our individual gun rights and access.

    And after schools are turned into forts, we’ll have to fortify every public venue a huge expense, but then there are those who unbelievably argue no gun free zones, like airports or Congress, just so they can have precious by their side at all times, and if not, why not airports or zcingress? ... a great topic for a talk about mental issues.

    The bottom line, we have always had guns, but arguably since the 1990s more and more of us have access to, and more of us are misusing the ability to wield lethal power, to the detriment of our society. The question is what is our collective limit? How much blood must flow in the streets, schools, homes of America until we collectively decide the 2A right is more of a detriment to our society than something positive for it?

    Gun Control Options
    My opinion of likelihood-
    When Hell Freezes Over

    • Background checks that really work, ie a comprehensive unified database and reporting compliance of associated restrictions such as domestic abuse, felon, whatever other appropriate restrictions to owning a gun.
    • Loss of Privacy: Although I believe mental health records are already included as a monitoring restriction, should they be expanded to prescriptions of medications associated with depression, etc? Anything in this country that involves loss of privacy is an uphill battle.
    • Psychological Evaluations prior to purchase and periodic revaluation. For example, I don’t believe the Vegas shooter was on the radar as a threat even though he had acquired a large number of guns and ammo, and was deranged br most reasonable citizens’ appraisals. The most recent Florida shooter was on the radar, but the system let us down.
    • Gun registration to monitor the number of guns and ammo being purchased by individuals and groups.
    • Restrictions on magazine style, bullet types such as hollow nose, kits designed to convert a weapon to automatic, etc.
    • Banning high velocity magazine fed, semi-automatic assault style rifles.
    • Ban- If serious about limiting harm, ban ALL semiautomatic rifles and handguns.
    • What have I overlooked?

    Compilation of MacRumors Gun Related Threads and Gun Incidents. We reap what we sow, just too dumb to admit it.
    There are just so many gun related threads, they fly by so fast, you might forget they ever happened. ;) A list of current and new ones. Date of post included for fast recall.

    Gun Violence Related Links:
    * Apr 2017 Urgent: BREAKING Suspected Serial Killer Steve Stephens Live-Streams Murder On Facebook Live
    *Gun Violence Archive
    *Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
    *Gun Violence in the Untied States
    *Law Center To Prevent Gun Violence
    *We can't fix U.S. gun violence until we address the psychosis at the heart of mass gun ownership.

    I've missed several. Post with link and I'll add it to the hlist. I considered making this a wiki post, but the option was not available for this forum.

    Legal Rulings
    * Appeals court says that concealed carry isn't a right
    (June 2016)

    Mass Shootings

    Controversial Police Shootings (Section added July 2016)

    School Shootings

    Misc Shootings

    Gun Owners Fight Back
  2. aaronvan Suspended


    Dec 21, 2011
    República Cascadia
    PRSI soil is particularly fecund and gun threads sprout like ear hair.
  3. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Feb 14, 2004
    OBJECTIVE reality
    I agree -- absolutely.

    In fact, I think we might get a new motto out of this: "The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a stolen toilet seat is a self-appointed vigilante with a gun."
  4. FieldingMellish Suspended

    Jun 20, 2010
    9 gun threads on page 1. Guys, how about adding onto existing threads?
  5. xmichaelp macrumors 68000


    Jul 10, 2012
    Easy there, Huntn. You're just politicizing tragedies to promote your liberal agenda.
  6. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

    Oct 27, 2009
    They don't make the tragedies any less tragic though.
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    His point (with the title) was that this could be the catch-all thread for what is bound to be the stream of gun massacres and mayhem in the years to come.

    Years ago I emailed the forum admins, asking for a forum stickie, HO-HUM, ANOTHER SHOOTING IN AMERICA.

    But that didn't go anywhere.
  8. Populism macrumors regular


    Jun 11, 2014
  9. jkcerda macrumors 6502a


    Jun 10, 2013
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    The woman should be given the Medal of Honor

    Wait, she missed? Throw her in jail
  10. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6


    Aug 17, 2007
  11. steve knight macrumors 68030

    steve knight

    Jan 28, 2009
    you have been deleted.
  12. Renzatic Suspended


    Aug 3, 2011
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    People have been griping about too many gun threads for as long as I've been posting here. Moreso than politics, religion, or social issues, it's THE one issue that gets brought up the most around here.

    They should rename the forum to Guns and jkcerda Posting That One Rachel Maddow Link.
  13. steve knight macrumors 68030

    steve knight

    Jan 28, 2009
  14. Renzatic Suspended


    Aug 3, 2011
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    Because nothing says responsible gun owner quite like a woman firing a weapon at a fleeing shoplifter in a public area.
  15. jkcerda macrumors 6502a


    Jun 10, 2013
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    I know huh, I also wish the criminal would have done his deed in a private range so that there would be no chance an innocent bystander getting hit but criminals don't have any common sense, still I am glad the woman decided to act so that she could save the store some money, I don't care if the merchandise is insured

    Is your sarcasm meter still broken?
  16. Renzatic Suspended


    Aug 3, 2011
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    I do not have a sarcasm meter because there is no such thing as one.
  17. citizenzen, Oct 8, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    He has enough common sense to not shoplift in a private gun range.

    Not to many big box retail stores in those anyway.
  18. Renzatic Suspended


    Aug 3, 2011
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    Give it three weeks.
  19. jkcerda macrumors 6502a


    Jun 10, 2013
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    I could sell you one I picked up from this store I thought was gun free until a lunatic female pulled out a gun & started firing at me, than GOD she was not properly trained & missed :D
  20. steve knight macrumors 68030

    steve knight

    Jan 28, 2009
    save money? bet this costs far more because of the ammosexual and the legal issues she has caused. This lady had no common sense.
  21. jkcerda macrumors 6502a


    Jun 10, 2013
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    Only because the bad guy got away, think of all the money she could have saved the tax payers had she killed the criminal, now the one facing jail is her :doh:

    Anyways I got more than one sarcasm meter from my earlier heist for sale.
  22. steve knight macrumors 68030

    steve knight

    Jan 28, 2009
    Money saved? her murder trial would be far higher just think of the cost of a death sentence. but hell she was judge jury and failed executioner. lets just hope no dogs steal food around her. she also failed her robo cop class too.
  23. jkcerda, Oct 8, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015

    jkcerda macrumors 6502a


    Jun 10, 2013
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    Of course she failed robo cop class, the book was not structured in the form of a recipe and women can't understand things any other way.

    What is your addy? I'll send that meter for free as you could sure use it :D
  24. johnh57 macrumors regular

    Jul 6, 2011
    I didn't read the article - but from the headline (which admittedly in todays news world sometimes only tangentially relates to the article itself) she is in trouble , and rightly so. Justifiable use of deadly force is rather limited in scope, as I understand it. There is Castle doctrine which means if I'm threatened where I am occupying I'm justified. i.e. if I'm in my home, car, etc and someone is in/breaking in I am justified in defending myself. However, If I pull in the driveway and see someone through the window and I know wife kids etc are not at home - that would not a justified use of deadly force and castle doctrine would not apply since I wasn't actually in the structure.

    Then there is 'stand your ground' doctrine which is slightly different and says I don't have to retreat or attempt to retreat if confronted outside of my occupancy and I am entitled to defend myself. Not all states have 'stand your ground' laws.

    The use of deadly force in a public space against a fleeing thief that isn't reasonably assumed to be a threat to anyone elses safety is just asking for trouble.

    Not a lawyer, and laws vary from state to state. This is the reason why I took a CCW class even though I haven't followed through with application for a CCW. The laws are complex.
  25. rdowns macrumors Penryn


    Jul 11, 2003
    Man, I hate that my ears are as fertile as a Duggar woman.

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