H.R.5741 - Universal National Service Act

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by quagmire, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #1
    So Rep. Charles Rangel( NY-D) wants to bring back the draft. And my response to you sir is, " Screw you". Sorry, but we are not in a situation where we need a draft. I hardly see a war like WWII coming anytime soon( when we would need a draft). Maybe if Americans didn't see themselves as the world police and think we need to police Iran, Israel, Pakistan, N.Korea/S. Korea, Japan, Iraq, etc our military wouldn't be stretched so thin. Maybe a draft would keep our taste for war in check because we then wouldn't ourselves or kids to go to war, but we hardly are in need of one now.

    Also, there is no declaration of war for Afghanistan or Iraq I believe, so how would us supporting the war effort mean us supporting a draft?

    http://rangel.house.gov/2010/07/rangeldraft0716.html

    http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-H5741/text
     
  2. CJisohsocool macrumors 6502

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    #2
    Are you kidding me??

    Thank god for don't ask don't tell lmao.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    My bold. Honestly, I think it's a great idea for that reason alone. We're far more eager to send other people to war than ourselves or our kids. I think it should absolutely be brought back.
     
  4. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #4
    There were two points in my life where I was ready to sign on the dotted line, but realized that my life would be very, very different from that point forward. I don't regret my decision to not join the military, but I also recognize that mandetory service has a lot of benefits.

    Border control - better
    Military understanding - better
    patriotism - better
    desire to avoid GWB type wars - better
    desire to avoid torture - better
    more respect for elders/others - better

    On the flip side, there would probably be a lot of PTSD gun nuts out there you wouldn't want to mess with.
     
  5. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #5
    This douchebag has been trying to do this for at least the past five years. **** him.

    There is no ****ing way in hell if I was drafted I would ever go "serve" this country by going to Iraq or Afghanistan. Sure, if the US were actually in a war and being occupied by another country, I would sign up and fight. But I'm not risking my life for some stupid ****ers 12,000 miles away who don't even want us there and the only reason we are there is to make some politicians friends corporations more money.
     
  6. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #6
    Have you been actively opposing the "wars" in Iraq and Afghanistan? If not, who is the douchebag? If so, then maybe getting more people to think the same way is a good thing. A little sacrifice for your views is a good thing, right?
     
  7. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #7
    The increase in troops would definitely help Obama's wars.
     
  8. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #8
    Ok here is what I don't understand. The right chastises the left for thinking throwing money at something will solve it (its a valid complaint that blame can be spread across all sides). Why then do right leaning people tend to think that simply putting more manpower in a warzone is going to fix the problem. Your fighting an idea, no amount of guns and troops will kill it.
     
  9. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #9
    I was being sarcastic about it helping the wars, but I'm glad you agree that they are indeed Obama's wars.
     
  10. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #10
    He's commander in chief and it's his administrations new strategy, so yes at this point it is his war. He inherited it, but he definitely has ownership over this stretch of it.
     
  11. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #11
    Really? President Obama "owns" his efforts to clean up the mess left by GWB. He "owns" the ways he tries to get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan, but the mess he's trying to clean up... that's GWB's and the Right's mess. They got us into those wars, and it is their mess we have to clean up today.

    Saying the wars are Obama's is almost as logical as saying that because FEMA is still involved in cleaning up Katrina, that that was Obama's mess too. The mess was left behind, someone has to clean it up. So, yes, the way it is cleaned up is President Obama's responsibility now, but the mess itself, that's all on the GOP, GWB and the Party of NO (unless it's invasion of other sovereign nations - in which case it's Hell YES).
     
  12. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #12
    First, I give hoot whether the wars were started by Bush, Gandalf or the Keebler Elves. It's fun fodder for a circle jerk about things that happened in the past, but doesn't do us a hell of a lot of good moving forward. Second, I agree with other posters around here, both on the "left" and the "right" - that we pull out now, period.

    Sure, your FEMA analogy has a beat and you can dance to it, but doesn't apply to anything I'm saying.
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    And if the draft were reinstated, I can guarantee you those wars would end very quickly. Not because of manpower, but because of unpopularity.
     
  14. Tilpots macrumors 601

    Tilpots

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    #14
    So you're saying that you want Afghanistan to revert back to a National Terrorist Training Camp? Great idea. Go with that...
     
  15. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #15
    So, you're saying that you want a strawman wrapped in a rhetorical question? Great idea. Go with that...
     
  16. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #16
    OK- since Pakistan seems to be working against us and the Afghanis don't want us there, what do you suggest? Nuking the entire country? Because short of killing every last person there, nothing is going to work.

    Make no mistake, I was originally for the invasion during Bush. But now it's just another stupid war gone wrong, that we cannot possibly win.
     
  17. Tilpots macrumors 601

    Tilpots

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    #17
    C'mon. You leave Afghanistan now and what happens? To oppose war is one thing, to leave your country open to future attacks is something entirely different. We leave now and we're in a much more dangerous position in ten years.
     
  18. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    You still haven't suggested a solution.
     
  19. Tilpots macrumors 601

    Tilpots

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    #19
    I suggest that we continue to fight the Taliban until we have a established an Afghan nation that's prepared to defend itself and take care of it's people, much the same way we've done with Iraq. And sure, Iraq's not the safest place to be right now and they've got lots of problems, but they're better equipped to move forward and rebuild their nation than they were under Saddam's regime.
     
  20. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #20
    Let me first say I have no general opposition to war. Regarding Afghanistan, however, I'll piggy-back/hijack on leekohler's comment above - we will not "win" the war in Afghanistan, nor will we end terrorism training there shy of an indiscriminate annihilation of the country/population. Therefore, bring the troops back home. Now.

    Edit: I'm headed to lunch/work, so my failure to respond much more today means little. Carry on...
     
  21. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #21
    Ok, you have a better solution. Answer this question... "C'mon. You leave Afghanistan later and what happens? To oppose war is one thing, to leave your country open to future attacks is something entirely different. We leave later and we're in a much more dangerous position in ten or less years."

    By the way, didn't the USSR invade Afghanistan? Are they still getting attacked with regular terrorism? If not, I wonder why? Maybe it has something to do with them LEAVING!
     
  22. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #22
    I doubt either will ever be prepared to govern themselves anytime soon. But that's for them to figure out now. They want us gone, and we should oblige them.

    BTW- how do we effectively fight the Taliban? We've been there for how long now and we're still losing ground. The Soviets learned their lesson about that place, so I guess it's our turn now.
     
  23. Tilpots macrumors 601

    Tilpots

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    #23
    First, I don't think their can be a clear winner in any war. Everybody loses something. I think the best we can hope for in Afghanistan is to establish a stable government. We haven't achieved that, yet, and until we do, pulling out is not an option. I agree that it's impossible to fight an ideal with guns. But that's not what's going on here. This war is to establish a stable and legitimate governing body. Once this is established, let the Afghans fight their own battle over ideology. But if we leave now we're giving the country over to thugs and terrorists while leaving the people of Afghanistan with no voice, no rights and no leadership.


    They weren't being attacked by Terrorists when they invaded Afghanistan.:rolleyes:

    Who wants us gone? The Taliban? Of course they do. We're fighting them. I don't think the Afghan people want us gone and neither did the Iraqi's, at least not until we left them a government to live under.

    And the Soviet comparison is nonsense. The Soviets were the aggressors, they were in no way, shape or form invading a country to protect their own citizens and national interests.
     
  24. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #24
    The presumption that pulling out of Afghanistan will give rise to a paradise for insurgent training camps ignores the fact that there are many other countries knowingly harboring and supporting these very same operations within their own borders. We cannot possibly go everywhere they are, both because of the resources it would require, and the disastrous implications for our political standing in the world. We are not the world's police.
     
  25. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #25
    Really? You might want to read up on that.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan
     

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