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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IJ Reilly, Oct 14, 2004.
What do you call Dick Cheney and Carl Rove standing next to each other in an open field?
A sniper's dream come true.
Careful. The FBI and the Secret Service take that kind of remark very seriously.
Bring em on.
I'll be more than happy to record, transcribe, digitize and dissemminate the entire debacle. I'm sure it'll spread pretty damn fast on P2P if I get the word out what the files are called.
Then they can explain exactly how they came by reliable information that I have any capability to carry out that action, that I in fact have the intent to carry out that action or indeed posess the skill with a weapon I neither posess nor have ever fired to hit either of them from the requisite extreme range.
I'm sick of being under de-facto passive surveillance and threat of prosecution for what I say, what I can observe, posess, copy, exchange or imply online or on the phone. It violates the spirit of the first amendment and keeps society oppressed in a way that was supposed to have ended with the end of the JE Hoover FBI era.
Back on topic: Dick Cheney is a slimy weasel who's "deferred" pay and proffits from Halliburton will buy him more than one man should ever possess.
What happened to freedom of speech?
The Patriot Act
The "Data Terrorism" Laws
The essentially illegal domestic employment of NSA listening and monitoring.
There's more but those are the ones that come readily to mind.
Nope. Threatening the life of a federal official has been a felony for a long time, well before the Patriot Act came into being. The definitions were relatively recently expanded from using the US Mail to make the threat to include electronic media. Trust me, this is true -- and trust me also when I say this kind of thing is taken very seriously by the FBI.
I am aware of the overzealous history of the SS and the FBI on this issue. I just find it offensive that I can be detained and interrogated for comments quite obviously made in jest on an essentially a-political public forum not involving the furthering or facilitation of a crime. IE: I could be detained for commenting WITHOUT INTENT OR MEANS.
Plus I feel that what defines a "threat" has been expanded entirely too far. Have I sent threatening communications to the official? Have I been rambling about violent conspiracies on websites run by scary fringe groups? NO!! (unless you're Steve Ballmer).
Very much so, recently a cop was arrested for saying something about wanting to "take out" the the President. If memory serves well, I believe this was a bar room threat.
Not so much that mischief would end up behind bars for the comment above. But being questioned by the Secret Service and the FBI is not something that I would wish on my enemy for an innocent joke.
I guess it's too late to save this thread.
What you find offensive isn't really at issue here. I'm just trying to give you a little friendly advice. The law is what it is. I have personal experience with this situation, and frankly I was happy the FBI was a little "over zealous" in my case. They didn't detain, arrest or even interrogate anyone -- they simply visited the person at his home. They ascertained whether he was a real threat, and while they were at it, read him the riot act. The agent called me back afterwards. In his opinion, the the guy wasn't likely to carry out his threats of violence. I was very relieved to hear it. It was all very professionally handled by the FBI from my point of view, and from the point of view of the threatener, I'm hope he concluded that his attempt to frighten me into silence wasn't worth the effort.
IJ, have you been a federal official? I though you were in Architecture...or was the story you describe about you as a private citizen? Wouldn't that merely involve the LAPD?
Sorry if I am nosy, I am just curious. Please feel free to reply (or not) at your discretion. This is interesting to me.
No, but among other things, I'm a freelance writer. A column I wrote for my county newspaper a few years ago got a reader so incensed that he fired off a rambling incoherent e-mail in which he threatened to shoot Bill Clinton, Janet Reno, and me. I guess that's what you call connecting with your audience. My local police department couldn't have cared less, but on the advice of my editor, I checked with the local FBI office. They were most interested, as it turned out.
Thanks IJ. Takes all kinds, doesn't it?
"It doesn't take all kinds, there just are all kinds." (Winston Churchill)
Perhaps my point was lost in my rhetoric.
I had no idea I had personally offended you. I was attempting to make the point that that comment in the context it which it was concieved would be a waste of time, money and resources to pursue in addition to being a blatant abuse of power.
Threats should always be taken seriously. But bad jokes should just be called as such.
I would call this a mutual need for Pieing no? We both have taken it too seriously.
'Fox? Care to do the honors?
For me the caution is in that living in the DC area one has to be very careful what they say and where. There are always an SOB that is high enough up to cause trouble for a joking comment like the one you made. What I call bar room threats. Sad world we live in.
And in another thread that I made mention of the cop arrested for making a threat, someone said well he had ready access to a gun, and better access. In thinking about it, access to the gun is not much of a problem in the US. And as to access, just ask Hinckly or Fromm (sp?).
I'm not offended in the least; I was giving you what I thought was useful advice.
The only thing that really bugs me about this thread is that nobody seems to want to discuss the article I posted.
Actually as wrong as it all may seem, since the "activist" courts have ruled on favor of Cheney; little can be said or done. Other than to vote for who think will lie less for the next four years.
I think Kerry wouldn't do have the stuff that the Republicans have done so far. And if the Republicans control Congress, then Kerry will be up for impeachment for sneezing the wrong way.
Have to admiit the OT discussion is much more fun.
I appreciate the compassion...
I haven't realy commented on the article because it's such an obvious episode of corruption it requires no commentary. Now if one of our Ultra-Right jackbooted zealots were to bitch about it I'd have something to say.
Wait...do I still get to try my new rhetoric-pnuematic pie-launcher 3000? Just loaded up with a fresh cartridge of Apple (for extra patriotism)...would be a shame to waste...
...perhaps I'll just shoot myself. I'll deserve it sooner or later.
As to the original topic of this thread, all I can think to say is how bold and arrogant the Right has seemingly become. Many people for good reason, have often thought that the Government has traditionally been in bed with Corporate interests, but there is little effort to hide this fact by the GOP, and more disturbingly, no real interest in this by any media. Quite an indictment of both the wolves and the sheep.
Oh well, at least we are used to drinking water out of plastic bottles and with Brita/Pur water filtration systems...
and as the Onion joked about earlier this year, quite hilariously and accurately (as they tend to do), many of us are suffering from outrage fatigue.
going to war on questionable grounds and hiring a company that destroys voter registration from the opposing party would be enough to get a Democratic president drawn and quartered. his family, neighbors and residents of his home state, too. but for this administration, it's just another day at the office. and people defend it. maddening. we grew up studying nazi germany and wondered how an entire nation could be so complicit. we're finding out.
I think we're finding out how powerless we are when a government is bent upon running itself as a corrupt, elite cabal and only respects the public as far as it can use them to further their plans.
I think for 200+ years we'd simply been lucky enough to never before encounter such a person or group of persons that aspired to higher office for anything other than personal feelings of a need to serve the public.
I'd trade Bush for Nixon in a hummingbird's heartbeat.
Oy... now that's a sad day.