Happy 4th of July.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by citizenzen, Jul 2, 2010.

  1. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    Nationalism is a form of mental illness.

  2. dukebound85 macrumors P6


    Jul 17, 2005
    5045 feet above sea level
    Nationalism is a form of pride for one's country.

    I shall be celebrating and always root for the US of A
  3. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010

    Aren't we smart enough to understand that borders and nations are artificial creations?

    I won't pretend that tribalism isn't an intensely powerful influence, but don't you think that it's something human's need to get over, in order to progress?
  4. iGuardian macrumors 6502a


    Aug 26, 2008
    No. Borders aren't artificial. You're celebrating your countries achievements, their culture, and celebrating the continuity of the nation.

    Nothing wrong with that. Happy upcoming 4th of July, my American friends! (We've already celebrated Canada on the first of July :p)
  5. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    Well, sure... the 4th of July is a one day holiday.

    But the nationalist hangover lasts... and lasts... and...
  6. iGuardian macrumors 6502a


    Aug 26, 2008
    Well, I can't speak for any nationalism in America, but I've never had a problem with nationalists in my own country. They just really love their country, and its people.
  7. dukebound85 macrumors P6


    Jul 17, 2005
    5045 feet above sea level
    I'd argue otherwise for the most part. Borders are hardly unique to humans and anything but artificial. However, borders created by say Europe in Africa and alike that arose out of conquests can be artificial as they are not focuses around those of similar people, but land

    Nope, not at all. Competition between countries leads to new tech, new frontiers, ambitions to be first, and invaluable events like the World Cup and the Olympics

    Without nations, the importance of culture preservation would be lost among other things. Would be a sad time indeed
  8. obeygiant macrumors 68040


    Jan 14, 2002
    totally cool
    Hey party pooper! Are you going to go around handing out flyers explaining how has a mental illness on the 4th? I feel sorry for you.

    I'll be drinking beer, cooking on the grill, and lighting fireworks in the warm sun. It should be an epic weekend!
  9. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    I have absolutely no problem with that, provided they share that love for other countries and peoples as well.

    perhaps you should reacquaint yourself with the definition of artificial...

    artificial - adjective

    1. humanly contrived often on a natural model; man-made

    2. having existence in legal, economic, or political theory; caused or produced by a human and especially social or political agency

    I don't expect too many people to agree with me.

    The holiday just seemed like an apt time to discuss the value of nationalism in our lives... kinda like how Christmas spurs discussions about greed and materialism.

    Have an epic weekend anyway!
  10. yojitani macrumors 68000


    Apr 28, 2005
    An octopus's garden
    Rather on the viral side for mental illness.

    Don't take the holiday too seriously anyway. It's just a day for seeing a bunch of fireworks. Kind of like Christmas in spirit, but without the miserable cold weather.:D Give it some time and it will become as meaningless and ironic as Guy Fawkes Day .
  11. leekohler macrumors G5


    Dec 22, 2004
    Chicago, Illinois
    Damn right! I plan on having a very good time.
  12. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    I try not to take anything too seriously.

    It's much better for my mental health.

    Or what's left of it. ;)
  13. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

    Mar 9, 2005
    Nationalism is stupid.

    The fourth of July is fun.

    The end.
  14. MattSepeta macrumors 65816


    Jul 9, 2009
    375th St. Y
    I'm going to shoot my fireworks at mexico and canada because I hate every other country and god damnit I love america [/sarcasm]

    I always knew it was true.... Democrats hate freedom!
  15. kavika411 macrumors 6502a


    Jan 8, 2006
    Nice bait and switch troll.
  16. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68040


    Feb 9, 2010
    I how my friend buying a new cat spurs discussions about feline aids being the number one killer of cats. You must be fun at parties.
  17. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    UGH! Democrats are too conservative for my taste... but they'll do, in a pinch.

    I don't "hate freedom".

    Can you tell me how nationalism promotes freedom?

    Awww... poor baby. Serious discussions scare hims.

    Here. Have another beer.

    That'll make you feel allll better.
  18. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Feb 14, 2004
    OBJECTIVE reality
    I don't see anything wrong with celebrating the founding of our country.

    But folks, here's how the Mac dictionary describes nationalism:

    That first bullet point is the one I have a real problem with. There's no country that's so superior that it can't learn from other countries...a fact lost on people like Rush Limbaugh.
  19. freeny macrumors 68020


    Sep 27, 2005
    Location: Location:
    Any holiday that is celebrated by charring and eating meat is fine by me.
  20. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    You guys are really fixated over the notion that the 4th of July is going to be taken away from you.

    Don't worry... nobody's going after your three-day weekend.

    This is not about parades and fireworks.

    Here are a few excerpts from a 2006 Howard Zinn article that I think sums it up well...

    Our citizenry has been brought up to see our nation as different from others, an exception in the world, uniquely moral, expanding into other lands in order to bring civilization, liberty, democracy.​
    • • •​
    It was always supposedly for benign purposes that our country went to war.​
    • • •​
    We invaded Cuba in 1898 to liberate the Cubans, and went to war in the Philippines shortly after, as President McKinley put it, "to civilize and Christianize" the Filipino people.​
    • • •​
    As our armies were committing massacres in the Philippines (at least 600,000 Filipinos died in a few years of conflict), Elihu Root, our secretary of war, was saying: "The American soldier is different from all other soldiers of all other countries since the war began. He is the advance guard of liberty and justice, of law and order, and of peace and happiness."​
    • • •​
    And nationalism is given a special virulence when it is said to be blessed by Providence. Today we have a president, invading two countries in four years, who announced on the campaign trail in 2004 that God speaks through him.

    We need to refute the idea that our nation is different from, morally superior to, the other imperial powers of world history.

    We need to assert our allegiance to the human race, and not to any one nation.​

    But keep the holiday. You deserve the time off.
  21. NT1440 macrumors G4


    May 18, 2008
    I agree that nationalism seems to almost always spawn extreme ignorance. That said, very few (it seems) take the 4th of July that seriously beyond finding a way to party.

    I like parties. :(

    Edit: @ citizen's latest post: I've been sickened by the American attitude for years now. We as a country have our head collectively up our own ass. Even my polish born best friend gets lost in the "greatest country in the world" mantra crap.
  22. SwiftLives macrumors 65816


    Dec 7, 2001
    Charleston, SC
    Personally, I'm going to celebrate American independence by purchasing beer owned by a corporation in Belgium, shooting off lots of Chinese-made fireworks, and eating a fruit that was imported from Japan! Woohoo!
  23. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a


    Oct 8, 2008

    It's better if a bunch of drunks DON'T get into serious discussions.

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