Hate Crime bill passes

macfan881

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Feb 22, 2006
2,347
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the bill now makes it a Federal Crime to assault any one for orientation sexuality or Gender, the bill passed 68-29

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/22/hate.crimes/index.html

Glad this got through the only thing I wanna find who actaully voted against this bill "probally republicans" they should be kicked out the senate but yeah glad to see something like this gets passed through.
 

drewsof07

macrumors 68000
Oct 30, 2006
1,998
415
Ohio
So does this mean the next time my girlfriend hits me and tells me what idiots men are, it won't be considered domestic violence anymore, but a hate crime? :eek:

That's pretty extreme...
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
19
Chicago, Illinois
So does this mean the next time my girlfriend hits me and tells me what idiots men are, it won't be considered domestic violence anymore, but a hate crime? :eek:

That's pretty extreme...
Yeah, that's what it means. :rolleyes:

Good- it's about time. Thanks Congress! Keep up the good work and get DOMA and DADT repealed now!
 

FrankieTDouglas

macrumors 65816
Mar 10, 2005
1,489
1,956
So does this mean the next time my girlfriend hits me and tells me what idiots men are, it won't be considered domestic violence anymore, but a hate crime? :eek:

That's pretty extreme...
Technically, that would be because of your sex, not your gender. :)
 

CorvusCamenarum

macrumors 65816
Dec 16, 2004
1,231
1
Birmingham, AL
So does this mean the next time my girlfriend hits me and tells me what idiots men are, it won't be considered domestic violence anymore, but a hate crime? :eek:

That's pretty extreme...
While I'm sure the bill is written in gender neutral language, just like you won't ever see a black man tried for a hate crime, you won't ever see a woman similarly tried. However, I will be taking bets on how soon it is until a woman accuses her partner of some form of DV and it gets tried as a hate crime.
 

jav6454

macrumors P6
Nov 14, 2007
16,864
1,480
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
While I'm sure the bill is written in gender neutral language, just like you won't ever see a black man tried for a hate crime, you won't ever see a woman similarly tried. However, I will be taking bets on how soon it is until a woman accuses her partner of some form of DV and it gets tried as a hate crime.
Pretty much my thoughts. I mean what constitutes a hate crime when the crime was done over some quarrel (let's say some argument over $ or some other silly thing got out of hand) that goes wrong. The offense was done because of the initial argument, but many will use the Hate Crime excuse; that's a given.

Example, (please I am no racist, but this is example is sorta common here in New Orleans) a white man is paying a black man over a job. The white guy decides not to pay because of work not complete or sloppy finish (say painting or gardenning) Instantly the black guy goes berserk (he has bills to pay) and starts a confrontation that scales way out of hand. End result someone gets injured severely, or even killed.

Right there, whoever is charged (but for arguments sake lets say the black guy is injured) will be charged with count Murder, Assault or Battery in X degree and an automatic hate crime count because of x group that protect xy rights. See, not difficult to turn an otherwise money and job argument into a hate crime.

I mean, its good in a sense because yes, we have hate crimes and they should be dealt accordingly, but there has to be a guideline of what a hate crime is and see that the charge for hate crime isn't abused.
 

No1451

macrumors 6502
Oct 20, 2008
474
0
Ottawa, ON
I'm not sure why they would mark a difference in a man beating another to death with a bat for his money and beating him to death for being black/gay/white/latin/gay/etc.

Stupid law, stupider people who support it, just my $0.02
 

TuffLuffJimmy

macrumors G3
Apr 6, 2007
8,989
25
Portland, OR
I'm not sure why they would mark a difference in a man beating another to death with a bat for his money and beating him to death for being black/gay/white/latin/gay/etc.

Stupid law, stupider people who support it, just my $0.02
Agreed. And I'm a gay brown guy!

*although I wouldn't say people who support it are necessarily stupid.
 

Tomorrow

macrumors 604
Mar 2, 2008
7,114
1,246
Always a day away
I'm not a fan of categorizing something as a "hate crime" for one reason only: if we start grading people's reasons for committing crimes, and we start saying one person's motive for committing a crime is worse than another, then we're necessarily saying that someone else's motive is better, which I can't get behind. To me, murder is murder, rape is rape, etc. I'd rather see punishments levied on what a person does, not on why they do it.

I'm also not wholly in favor of making assault a Federal crime in any case - don't all the states already have something on the books making assault a crime?
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
19
Chicago, Illinois
Ridiculous.

Crime is crime regardless of motivation.

People can't pay their mortgages and the govt. is worried about this?
Problem is- they don't get prosecuted the same. "Gay panic" has been used as a defense for murder for many years, resulting in greatly reduced sentences for the perps. This does away with such defenses.

I wish we didn't have to have laws like this. I really do. Unfortunately, that's not reality.
 

No1451

macrumors 6502
Oct 20, 2008
474
0
Ottawa, ON
Problem is- they don't get prosecuted the same. "Gay panic" has been used as a defense for murder for many years, resulting in greatly reduced sentences for the perps. This does away with such defenses.

I wish we didn't have to have laws like this. I really do. Unfortunately, that's not reality.
The thing though is that they shouldn't be different to either way. If I get a day more of time in jail because I beat a gay guy to death instead of a straight guy the system failed.
 

CalBoy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2007
7,829
36
Just what we need. More hate crime bills. Aren't most violent crimes out of hate anyway?
I'm not sure why they would mark a difference in a man beating another to death with a bat for his money and beating him to death for being black/gay/white/latin/gay/etc.
The problem with this is that it assumes crimes occur in a vacuum.

When we take a look at how crimes are actually committed, and how they are prosecuted, we see a disparity. A gay person in, say, San Francisco or New York will probably receive the same level of protection from local authorities as a straight person.

In other localities, that is not guaranteed (nor even likely) to be the case. It's quite analogous to how blacks could not receive equal protection when they were victims prior to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. By adding a layer of Federal statutory penalty, the DOJ can serve as an asset to victims that have been denied justice. This law also provides a "carrot" for local DAs by providing funds and expertise for the purposes of helping departments gear up for helping LGTB victims.

Ridiculous.

Crime is crime regardless of motivation.
The thing though is that they shouldn't be different to either way. If I get a day more of time in jail because I beat a gay guy to death instead of a straight guy the system failed.
Exactly. No matter the motivation assault is assault.
So motivation is irrelevant to crime? Quite frankly, centuries of legal precedent disagree with you. If you kill someone unintentionally, you have not committed murder, you have committed manslaughter. The motivation is the key difference here; in one situation it is nonexistent and in another it is.

We also separate and discriminate murder by motivation and other factors that don't change the fact that someone is dead, hence why there is 1st Degree Murder, 2nd Degree Murder, and 3rd Degree Murder.

Crimes can also be punished according to the degree to which they impacted society as a whole. We prosecute "terrorism" separately and distinctly from 1st Degree Murder, destruction of property, burglary, etc (etc in this case being all other crimes you'd have to commit in order to successfully carry out a terrorist attack).

Hate crimes function precisely the same way as terrorism; they seek to drive fear into the hearts of a particular group of people. Lynching a black man does more than kill a person; it sends a message to all other black individuals that they are "on notice." Such acts of violence are so gruesome that they extend beyond the immediate victims, and they are crimes that are indeed motivated by something even worse than standard personal hatred that leads to murder.

I think everyone needs to keep in mind that just because an LGTB individual is harmed by a non-LGTB individual in an altercation doesn't mean that the DOJ is going to swoop in and declare it a hate crime. There are standards that need to be met and it isn't as black and white as being portrayed in this thread.

It's also important to keep in mind that when a certain characteristic is enshrined into hate crime legislation, it is an acknowledgement that our society has had trouble with that characteristic. This bill, aside from its practical implications, is a signal that society has been wrong about this issue in the past, and it's time to start making amends.
 

PcBgone

macrumors 6502
Feb 3, 2008
260
0
Can I have my tax money back? I can spend my money better then this congress and administration.
 

MikhailT

macrumors 601
Nov 12, 2007
4,332
827
Wow, I am surprised at many of the people in this tread, "crime is crime regardless of bias, assault is assault". Unfortunately, while those people may think like that and it may work in a perfect world, in reality it just does not happen like that and there's no such thing as a perfect thing and the US law system is far too complicated than that.

This makes it a federal crime, not a local state law meaning that many cases where a hate crime took place in a reglious area, the federal government will be taking on the case instead of the local folks who may not actually be motivated to give justice to those perpetrators since they may believe it was the right thing to do.
 

Ttownbeast

macrumors 65816
May 10, 2009
1,135
0
If I stab a guy to death for his wallet, it doesn't mean I hate them i just want their money, but If I call them the magical "N" word while slicing and dicing before stealing their cash I get a harsher sentence?....I find this fascinating--if I ever rob and kill somebody I'll remember to mind my P's and Q's keeping it nothing personal just business.