Hate Crimes Expansion - Includes Gender, Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Eanair, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. Eanair macrumors 6502

    Eanair

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    #1
    Associated Press, via Google News.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hmxKiiSIsM-k7nX2yECb7kGw1qhwD99FUN7G0

    There still is the snag with the F-22s though.
     
  2. thegoldenmackid macrumors 604

    thegoldenmackid

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    #2
    I love how the F22 was attached to the hate crimes bill. Which is def. historic, most political analysts in November though the dems. would do healthcare and climate, but would never be able to pass a hate crime update, as sad as that sounds.
     
  3. emt1 macrumors 65816

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    #3
    God I hate hate crime laws. Assault and murder are always bad, it doesn't matter why. If someone beat me up because I like boys, they should get the same punishment as they would if they were to beat me up for money.
     
  4. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #4
    Agreed, I think distinguishing between hate crimes and normal crimes (for anything other than record keeping and statistical analysis) are discriminatory, especially for sentencing purposes. I understand the intent, but I still don't think it's right.
     
  5. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #5
    So you're implying the civil rights movement wasn't necessary and that the 13th amendment was sufficient in and of itself? Do you think that post Civil War, miscegnation laws and poll taxes were justified?

    Sometimes in order to right historical wrongs, the law needs to come down harder on those who refuse to recognize amendments and basic human rights. I would like to see them sunsetted but those who hate and discriminate are with us for the long run.
     
  6. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #6
    Why does it need to be labeled a hate crime. It should all be under the same umbrella as a crime in general. If a straight white dude beats up another straight white dude for no reason is that a hate crime? Why not just prosecute all crime equally with the same punishment.
     
  7. emt1 macrumors 65816

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    #7
    Laws should not be created to overcompensate for the mistakes of the past. All people are entitled to EQUAL protection under the law. It should not be a worse crime to kill someone for being gay than than to kill someone for their car.
     
  8. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #8
    About damn time is what I have to say.

    My worry is some people will scream hate crimes and tried to be punish for hate crimes when it was not hate crime.

    For example lets say some one mugs and kills a guy for his money. This guy just happens to be gay I could see some people screaming hate crime. When it was just about the money. While that example seems far fetch it some things would start blurring the lines and it would be harder. I worry they might error on the side of hate crime instead of just a normal version of said crime. Personally in hate crimes because it is so much harsher of a punishment they should error on the non hate crime side that hate crime.
     
  9. emt1 macrumors 65816

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    #9
    So you aren't necessarily arguing against hate crimes, you just don't want someone erroneously convicted of a hate crime.
     
  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    I would normally agree with you. But I think a lot of you are missing the point. The problem is, and we just saw this happen in Ft Worth a few weeks ago, that perpetrators use things such as "gay panic" as a defense for murder. This defense is still being used and has let people get away with it. Therefore, we need laws like this. I wish it weren't that way, but it is.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense

    These laws put an end to that defense once and for all.
     
  11. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #11
    exactly.

    I am seen a few to many times some one get charge with a hate crime and it not be one.
    The problem with the law while good is politics and the media will get involved and try to make a bigger case for a hate crime when it is not one.


    An example closer and where the lines get blurred is take for example a cops beat the crap out of a guy who was running from police and almost hit someone. If it was a African American people would scream hate crime. In my book it is excessive force and yes the action is wrong but it does not cross the line into hate crime. The public, and media would scream hate crime but it is not one.

    To me a hate crime is premeditated and plan out to a point. The Ft Worth case while very wrong, I would not say is a hate crime and extreme excessive force and at worse manslaughter.
     
  12. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #12
    The cop is using "gay panic" as his defense. That the cop was freaked out by gay people should have no bearing on the crime. First, you're saying that all crimes should be treated the same, but now you're not. No one should EVER be able to use their fear or hatred of someone else as a defense for murder. That's why these laws are unfortunately necessary.
     
  13. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

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    #13
    Well I guess my days of beating up Trannys is coming to an end ;)


    Hate Crime legislation is "stooooopid"

    Most violent crimes stem from hate. It's the base emotional context for the crime. This of course excludes robberies that end up becoming violent.
     
  14. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #14
    What a waste of time and taxpayer money.

    Assault, murder, etc. are all already illegal. Who cares why?
     
  15. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #15
    Unless someone decides to use the gay panic defense. Then murder, assault etc. end up being just fine in way too many cases.
     
  16. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #16
    That shouldn't even be allowed as a defense, either a cop went over the line or he didn't. It should not matter if a person is gay straight black or white. If someone harms another person for no reason other then that he felt like it it should be a harsh crime. If undue force was used call it a hate crime regardless of the victims gender.
     
  17. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #17
    I have never heard of that until today. Is it really that common?

    I don't like hate crimes laws. Crimes are crimes, period.
     
  18. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #18
    Agreed. I don't think that hate crime laws should exist.
     
  19. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #19
    Unfortunately, "should'a, would'a, could'a" isn't reality. Do you guys really think people pushed for this just for fun?

    Yep. It used to happen a lot back in the 80's. A lesbian friend of mine was gang-raped because she was a lesbian. She pressed charges. The cops told her she should have laid back and enjoyed it. The case went nowhere legally, but the guys at least got kicked out of school.
     
  20. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #20
    No I did not say it should be used as an excuse for murder. What I did say was it should not be classified as a hate crime. That is 2 very different cases.

    I classifid hate crimes very differently than normal crimes. The forth worth case I would put under the cloud as normal and not hate.
    "gay panic" defense should be allowed only the the part of keeping it from being classified as a hate crime. From that point on it is treated like a normal crime and "gay panic" would have no baring on if it was manslaughter or assault and so on.

    The beating the crap out of the guy for the cop should be treated as if he did it to a normal straight person.
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    The Fort Worth case is the very definition of "hate crime".
     
  22. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #22
    And that is my case and point of a case that would be move into hate crime for political reasons.
    Hate crimes to me are premeditated.
    This is another debate but I am going to go with the assumption that he was touch so he reacted. But it would fall underbrela as a hate crime

    My view is because of how much harsher a hate crime punishment is the error should always be on the side of it not being a hate crime and in the Ft Worth case the lines are blurred and as such it should be error on the side of it not being a hate crime
     
  23. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #23
    So, you think "gay panic" is an acceptable defense because it's not premeditated and doesn't involve prejudice, fear and hate?
     
  24. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #24
    It should not make a difference if she was a lesbian or a straight woman. Gang rape is gang rape and should be treated as such.

    The law should not know gender or race, it should treat a serious crime as such and not choose the penalty.
     
  25. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #25
    But it wasn't. Many other crimes against gay people aren't either, or the sentences are reduced because people use this defense. Like I said, I wish hate crimes laws weren't necessary too. Unfortunately, they are.
     

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