Heart Problems, Sue Atkins

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by virividox, May 27, 2004.

  1. wrldwzrd89 macrumors G5


    Jun 6, 2003
    Solon, OH
  2. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Dec 25, 2003
    Northern Virginia
    Given that the guy is asking only for $15K, i think the lawsuit is not just about the money. In fact if it does get to court Atkins Inc. may wish they had settled.

    The science is building that this diet is not a healthy one.
  3. Counterfit macrumors G3


    Aug 20, 2003
    sitting on your shoulder
    That and the 1979 case with the same exact premise was thrown out. I'm not sure if that would set precedent though...
  4. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    May 19, 2002
    And idiots wonder why they say talk to a doctor before starting a diet. :rolleyes:
  5. AmbitiousLemon Moderator emeritus


    Nov 28, 2001
    down in Fraggle Rock
    IMO this is a completely legit lawsuit. Atkins INC has repeatedly said that their diet is safe and healthy. They sell a product telling consumers it is safe when in fact it is very capable of killing you.

    This is the phen fin (or however they spelled it) thing all over again. The nation gets sucked into some lose weight quick scheme then find out later it kills you.

    The trouble with Atkins is most of its health effects take time to develop. Atkins has only garnered scrutiny for the past 2 years or so. So it has been difficult to show specifically that Atkins is dangerous.

    The lawyers will have to take a more general approach in proving their case and simply show that diets like Atkins have been proven repeatedly and for many years to cause very serious healthy problems such as obseity, heart disease, and colon cancer. The links between consumption of animal fats and colon cancer is nearly as well established as cigarettes and lung cancer so it is quite possible to show that any diet that suggests that people eat more meat and less carbs would be likely to kill the dieter. Showing a link between Atkins and heart disease may be more difficult, though feasible.

    The particulars of this case that are troubling to me are the connections between this man and a group that promotes a vegan diet (which can be just as damaging to your health as Atkins). The merits of the case are good IMO, but I question the motives and honesty of the man and his lawyers.
  6. leftbanke7 macrumors 6502a


    Feb 4, 2004
    West Valley City, Utah
    Had the guy filed the lawsuit on his own, I would have said it was probably legit, however, the fact that a Vegan animal right's group is involved has to raise at least one red flag.

    I agree with a previous statement made here. Go talk to your doctor. And frankly, if you are looking for gimmick diets as a way to lose weight and can't get your chubby butt to work out on a semi-regular basis, then perhaps you deserve what you get.

    And finally, he was complaining about not having a 32 inch waist anymore? I seriously can not remember the last time I was a 32. Has the obsession of physical fitness and beauty gotten to a point where a man in a size 34 pair of pants feels fat?
  7. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040


    Sep 13, 2003
    Its not so much where you are as when you are.
    Hell I'ld be happy to be back into a 42.
  8. applebum macrumors 6502

    Jul 10, 2003
    He did - 2 months after starting (to lose all of 8 pounds), his Cholesterol level had gone from around 140 to over 200!!! And he continued on this diet for another 2 years....WTF. My cholesterol jumps that much in 2 months, its gotta be the diet. Stupid lawsuit...where's the common sense?
  9. wdlove macrumors P6


    Oct 20, 2002
    I agree, that the $15,000 that is being ask indicates another motive for the suit. Adkins should settle this, a private meeting would be a good idea.
  10. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    May 19, 2002
    You have to wonder how popular a $400 piece of oral hardware that forces people to take smaller bites is going to be.

    Forcing people to eat slower, and hopefully chew their food.

    Based on the popularity of the gastric band which makes people take smaller bites, chew their food, and eat slower.

    This device will probably be VERY popular.
  11. rainman::|:| macrumors 603


    Feb 2, 2002
    I agree with you on this. Corporations selling products have a responsibility for their safe use, it's why everything comes with so many warning labels anymore. The atkins cookbooks don't come with warning labels. In fact, atkins seems to have only addressed the idea that some people have 'adverse' reactions to the diet once or twice, and vaguely at best. Phen-phen is a great example.

    More than likely, he appealed to them for help because not only is it important to have the financial resources to carry out a suit like this, but it's also important to have the media knowledge and resources that such an organization provides. In short, he found someone with an agenda who's goals matched his own, and made them pay for his legal bill :)

    I agree that it's pretty absurd, and the effects of poor body image in men is rarely discussed. Tho i admit, i'm at a 31 inch waist now, and am quite proud of myself. But i lost most of my weight through anorexia, drug addiction, and exercise; not some fad diet :rolleyes:

    Atkins is rather dead. And if his widow (and her team of lawyers) settle with him, they'd be opening the floodgates to anyone else who had a dangerous reaction-- and i'll bet there are quite a few. They deserve it, tho. No rational person could hear "bacon as a snackfood" and think, "great diet idea!"

  12. GroundLoop macrumors 68000


    Mar 21, 2003
    I just love how everyone puts down the Atkins diet because of the few people that don't follow the diet correctly. Yes, eating red meat for breakfast, lunch, dinner and a midnight snack is not the way to do it. I am on atkins and I don't eat any red meat al all (strictly fish and poultry). My cholesterol has gone way down, I have lost 27 pounds and 8% body fat. I have never felt better. It seems like bashing Atkins is the "it" thing to do.

  13. orb macrumors member

    Dec 2, 2002
    The science isn't building. It's been built. Low carb diets are unhealthy. You'd have to have almost no scientific reasoning skills and many many years of study to believe the pseudo-science reasoning behind it all.

    What's worse is that in addition to being bad for you, the weight loss gains aren't permanent. Research has shown that the the long term weight loss success ratio is even less for low-carb diets than for traditional diets. In other words, it's hard for people to make the weight loss from the temporary behaviour change of eating fewer calories on a radically altered low carb diet permanent. Would you really WANT to eat low carb forever? Even if it wasn't unhealthy, it gets really boring after a while.
  14. applebum macrumors 6502

    Jul 10, 2003
    This just isn't true. I have seen many articles recently comparing Atkins and other "low carb" diets to low fat and lower calorie diets vs a control group who didn't diet. In the short term, the low carb dieters lose more weight, have bigger drops in cholesterol and triglycerides, and better blood glucose numbers. Over the course of a year, the diets all are pretty equal, with "low carb" still having an edge in lowering the bad cholesrerol and lowering triglycerides. However, the "low carb" diets do have more drop out, because it is a hard diet to maintain. About the only problem with low carb diets is that there has been no really long term studies to see how it affects kidney function and other health factors. Most of the research I have seen suggests that simply losing weight improves most health factors - so do whatever diet you can stick with that gets the weight coming off. Long term, the key is to also start exercising and eating plenty of fruits and vegetables (fiber) to keep weight off.

    This is true of all the diets, the majority of people backslide and go back to old, bad habits once they have lost the weight.

    The problem is that most people aren't aware that "radically low carb" is only supposed to be temporary. Atkins specifically starts adding back more and more carbs at various stages. By the time you get to maintenance, there are very few restrictions on the carbs you can eat, and most of those shouldn't be eaten anyway (white, processed breads, cakes, cookies, etc).

    I think the low carb way of thinking is actually getting some much healthier choices available to everyone. Look at low carb breads - generally made with whole wheat and typically much more fiber - basically the way bread used to be made. There are plenty of "low carb" products out there that can be incorporated into any healthy diet. I have some low carb soymilk that actually tastes really good. It has 0 sugars (they use Splenda) which is healthier than regular soymilk. It has 3 grams of fat compared to 4 in regular soymilk - healthier. And it has only 70 calories comapared to 130 in regular - healthier. Personally, while I don't do a low carb diet, I am glad this idea is taking off. I think it is providing me with some better options for my everyday eating.
  15. orb macrumors member

    Dec 2, 2002
    The long term (1 year plus) statistics are very low for low carb diets, meaning that over the long term people lose less weight than on other diets, even many other fad diets.

    For information about the dangers of low carb (and other fad diets), I highly recommend http://www.healthcentral.com/ - it's really great. It exposes the sillyness of low carb diets. The guy behind it also railed on all the silly low fat diets years ago. Carbs are good for you. Fat is good for you. Imagine that. You are fooling yourself if you think you can be healthy drastically cutting down either.
  16. applebum macrumors 6502

    Jul 10, 2003
    I go to HealthCentral all the time. I love Dr. Dean and listen to his show whenever I can. Of course he is against fad diets - his first book was "Eat,
    Drink, and Be Merry" (very good book). His approach makes perfect sense, eat what you like and can stick with, eat in moderation, get plenty of fruits and vegetables, and get plenty of exercise. Wonderful stuff. Unfortunately, if it were easy to follow that advice, no one in this country would be obese. Diets are typically for the obese. Number one in importance for the obese is to lose weight. Simply doing that will make them healthier - no matter what diet they choose. Second in importance is keeping off the weight. This is where people need to eat smart, eat in moderation, and exercise - no fad diets here.

    I still stand by what I said before - more and more research is showing that low carb diets are not terrible and can actually improve health - again, this is over a short time - 6 to 12 months. A quick google search turned up this link - Here - which basically backs up what I said in my earlier post.

    As far as carbs go, complex carbs are good for us - simple carbs generally aren't. Problem is, these are the carbs that most obese people are eating - cakes, cookies, bread, pasta. If you were to have a meal of grilled chicken breast, grilled mixed vegetables, and a fruit salad (no sugar or syrups added) and water, you would be eating a fairly low carb meal compared to eating the same meal with a few rolls before hand, heavy syrup on the fruit, a coke to drink, and a piece of cheesecake afterwards. Compare the carbs on those 2 meals, and you will see the healthy meal is low carb and the other is not. Usually, it is the second meal that most people would eat, and it is the first meal that someone on a low carb diet would eat (provided they are not being extreme with their low carbs).
  17. Dippo macrumors 65816


    Sep 27, 2003
    Charlotte, NC
    Well at least the guy isn't looking to get rich off this lawsuit. I can respect him if all he is trying to do is make a point.
  18. Abstract macrumors Penryn


    Dec 27, 2002
    Location Location Location
    The key point as to why the low-carb/eat meat diet works so well is because eating lots of protein actually makes you feel less hungry. If you don't want to eat anymore, and you're not dumber than a bowl of jello, you'll stop eating when you're not hungry. So in a way, it works. I just don't think people see it this way because the research into this is quite new.

    Again, you're right. So yes, there is some merit to the way that the Atkins diet, and many "low-carb" diets, work. However, the amount of benefit from the Atkins diet drops to the same level as any "normal" diet. The Atkins diet provides quick improvement at the beginning, beating out regular "calorie-cutting" diets, but eventually the amount of benefit gained by either diet is the same.

    This doesn't mean that choosing Atkins over a regular diet would lead to the same results. Such a diet can only be bad for your health. Cutting out either protein, fat, or carbs from your diet can only prove to be less healthy than a regular diet because you need a balance of all 3 to stay healthy. Calorie-cutting is the best diet. If you intake 2000 calories per day, and you burn off 2500 calories daily, then guess what, math whizzes? You just lost 500 calories that day!! Keep doing it, and it'll work! The only bad part is cutting back on some of your favourite snacks.
  19. wdlove macrumors P6


    Oct 20, 2002
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  20. JesseJames macrumors 6502a

    Mar 28, 2003
    How'd I get here? How can I leave?
    When are people going to learn that there's just no way around it. You have to hit the gym and the track to stay fit. Proper diet and sweets in moderation.
    Just no way around it.
  21. Inspector Lee macrumors 6502a

    Inspector Lee

    Jan 24, 2004
    East Lansing, MI
    I think Atkins is "it" on both sides of the coin - bashing and supporting. And the support seems to have reached a fever pitch. Atkins is everywhere man and it is kind of frightening. From low carb peanut butter cups to bunless burgers, it currently rules the wide-bodied landscape.

    I saw "Super Size Me" last night. There were lawsuits filed a few years back against McDonalds. Legally speaking, if a plaintiff can prove that a corporation is knowingly selling/pushing a harmful product, they can be awarded damages - regardless of their own stupidity.
  22. leftbanke7 macrumors 6502a


    Feb 4, 2004
    West Valley City, Utah
    Exactly. If you are going to sit on your duff and chow down on junk, you have 0 right to complain about how fat you are.

    However, the US & state gov'ts should be doing more to get people out to the gyms. The gov't is more concerned about funding sports rather than fitness that gyms are almost exclusively privately ran and those that are run by cities and states get very little funding and the prices are too high for many. I believe that in Europe, it is the other way around. Fitness gets funding where as sports is on its own, which is a good way to do it.

    Now, even if the cost is too high, you can still go out and walk around the block and using the above as an excuse is just a person being lazy (unless you live in some nasty inner city complex and your life is in jeopardy when you go walking). When I get paid next week, I am going out and getting me a bike. Add that to me being some aware about what I am eating and taking a vitamin suppliment loaded in B-Complex vitamins and I hope to be getting myself in a little better shape. I'm not worried too much about numbers but my goal is to fit into all the shirts I have in my closet that I have overgrown.
  23. BaDBoY macrumors member

    Aug 22, 2003
    i think its pretty stupid how people think they can lose weight JUST doing te atkins program and nothing else... not even exercising. come on now... how else will you lose weight even eating all the "low carb but high calorie count" foods? i work at subway dammit!! i should know! :D

    Heres a good point. losing weight is all on how much calories you intake and burn. simple enough. you burn more calories than you eat, you lose weight. you eat more than you burn, you gain weight.

  24. slooksterPSV macrumors 68040


    Apr 17, 2004
    I just read that article and that's something else. I know people who are on that atkins diet and I wish they'd get off from it. I mean they can eat burgers and everything, but bread, fruits, etc. or whatever has carbs in it. But honestly if insulin makes people hungrier and people eat healthy foods when they are hungry well what da ya know:
    Healthy Foods = Healthy Body
    Healthy Body = More Metabolism and Less Fat
    Less Fat = Happy people

    Greasy No Carb Food = Unhealthy clogged up body
    Unhealthy body = problems
    problems = unhappy people
    but if they lose weight then they are happy

    It just sickens me they can't eat a good healthy apple that gives you energy when they can eat burgers that make them slow and tired.

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