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Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
54,617
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Following yesterday's news that investor Carl Icahn has taken a greater than $1 billion position in Apple, believing the company is 'extremely undervalued', today Lee Cooperman of hedge fund Omega Advisors says he agrees with Icahn and that his firm has taken a modest position in Apple, according to CNBC.

The news has driven Apple's stock price over $500 for the first time seven months. Apple first breached the $500 barrier in February of 2012, nearly 18 months ago to the day.

aapl.jpg
Scott Wapner reporting earlier today on CNBC:
Much is being made of Carl Icahn's big new position in Apple, but from the filings we've learned that Lee Cooperman has taken a new position. He is back in Apple. I just got off the phone with him and he told me the following: he agrees with Carl Icahn that Apple is cheap, said they have a new modest position, said got back in the low $400s.

Lee Cooperman thinking that the new iPhone is going to create some buzz. When talking about the entire space he says he still thinks that Qualcomm is the best play in that overall space. But clearly making it known that he agrees with Carl Icahn that Apple is cheap in his words. They got back in in the low $400s and think the new iPhone which is expected on September 10th is going to create some buzz and you know Apple was right on the cusp of $500. We will see what happens here.
Apple has a long way to go to reach its all-time high of $705 set last year, but both Icahn and Cooperman are betting big on the company and believe it can regain those levels.

Article Link: Hedge Funder Lee Cooperman Takes 'Modest Position' in Apple, Drives Stock Price Over $500
 

keysofanxiety

macrumors G3
Nov 23, 2011
9,534
25,288
Stuff like this just goes to show how easily (well, easy if you've got billions of dollars to spend) the stock market can be manipulated.

Apple stock ≠ Apple's performance.
 

Tankmaze

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2012
1,692
328
funny how big investors and the sentiment of "undervalue" can make the stock price up. not how the company is performing, how many billion dollars made, etc. stock market is still a mystery to me.
 

FrizzleFryBen

macrumors 6502
Dec 14, 2009
416
48
Charlotte, NC
I'm so glad we're back to the days where one or two investors can manipulate a stock by manipulating other investors. Whether they are right or wrong in their predictions, they will come out as winners.
 

jav6454

macrumors P6
Nov 14, 2007
17,204
2,276
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
This is why, ladies and gentlemen, the stock market is a craphole and unrelated marker of performance for anything.

Anyone with the right amount of money or right push can influence heavily. A dying company can be made worth billions (not saying apple is dying, just illustrating a point)
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,554
funny how big investors and the sentiment of "undervalue" can make the stock price up. not how the company is performing, how many billion dollars made, etc. stock market is still a mystery to me.

The company has been performing well all the time, and is still massively undervalued.
 

palmharbor

macrumors 6502
Jul 31, 2007
408
0
Panic to Elation

The stock market moves in a state of hysteria....if this important guy likes it...buy, buy, buy.....then a few days later....this important guy does not like it.....sell, sell, sell.
Tesla is a perfect example of that...going up like crazy then some "analyist"
says sell and the market panics....SELL SELL SELL...this just happened again this week and the stock is taking big hits yesterday and a bigger one today.
If tommorrow another Analyisist says buy...THEN ITS BUY BUY BUY...HYSTERIA.

----------

I'm so glad we're back to the days where one or two investors can manipulate a stock by manipulating other investors. Whether they are right or wrong in their predictions, they will come out as winners.


excellent point that needs to be made but you will never hear this on FoxBusiness or CNBC Financial network
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,889
1,479
Palookaville
Correction to story: Icahn said he believes the current stock value is $625 without earnings growth, considering only the buybacks, not the previous high of $705. If you believe Ichan's scenario (clearly, he does), then a share value over $700 would be based on earnings growth.

I would say, let the uninformed claptrap commentary begin, but I see I am already too late.
 

palmharbor

macrumors 6502
Jul 31, 2007
408
0
Stuff like this just goes to show how easily (well, easy if you've got billions of dollars to spend) the stock market can be manipulated.

Apple stock ≠ Apple's performance.
Much of the stock market game is fixed. People bet against the stock going up known as selling short...that is what happened to apple when it got in the 700's then the "analysts " said it was over valued...AFTER THEY HAD SOLD AT THE HIGH PRICE...then the stock takes a nose dive and they buy it back at a much lower price.
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,889
1,479
Palookaville
This is why, ladies and gentlemen, the stock market is a craphole and unrelated marker of performance for anything.

Anyone with the right amount of money or right push can influence heavily. A dying company can be made worth billions (not saying apple is dying, just illustrating a point)

Speaking of uninformed claptrap.

On any given day at any given moment, the markets are not necessarily behaving rationally. But in the final analysis, the markets are all about earnings, and the growth thereof. So no, stock price is not "unrelated" to performance, it is very closely related. Apple posted three consecutive quarters of declining earnings and (lo and behold!) the stock price when down. What a conspiracy. Now optimism is building that Apple's earnings will begin to grow again, and oddly enough, the stock price is going up again. Double that conspiracy, because it can't be anything else.
 
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huntercr

macrumors 65816
Jun 6, 2006
1,039
0
how is this not stock manipulation?

Because they are publicly declaring their action. There is no evidence of deception. There would be manipulation if, say he did not take a position, but sold PUTs ahead of time, knowing his declaration would cause the stock to rise in the short term
 

CDutch

macrumors regular
Jul 6, 2009
125
0
how is this not stock manipulation?

An investor can publicize his stake in the company. Icahn is a highly regarded investor hence the move in the stock (people following his lead essentially).

What you can't do is talk up the stock and be selling it at the same time (called a pump and dump)...that's illegal.
 

GfPQqmcRKUvP

macrumors 68040
Sep 29, 2005
3,239
448
Terminus
I'm so glad we're back to the days where one or two investors can manipulate a stock by manipulating other investors. Whether they are right or wrong in their predictions, they will come out as winners.

This isn't true. Bill Ackman came out with a billion dollar short position on Herbalife that he publicized with tons of research, a presentation, and accusations of it being a pyramid scheme. The market reacted and his position gained in value. Then some other HF titans (including Carl Icahn) disagreed with his position and came out very bullish on the stock. Ackman is currently massively in the red.

People listen to investors who have a reputation for handily beating the market and who put lots of their money on the line. Many of these positions are disclosed via 13F filings vs twitter/investor conferences. If you disagree with their conclusions feel free to take the opposite side of the trade. Not everything that is market moving is some conspiracy meant to stick it to the little guy. Carl Icahn's involvement in the Dell going-private transaction has netted common shareholders (you know, ordinary retail investors who hold the stock along with institutional investors) tens of millions of dollars by exposing what was, at the time, a deficient deal that the Board was ready to accept.
 

giantfan1224

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2012
870
1,115
how is this not stock manipulation?

Well, if you read the whole story, you'd know that Cooperman did not come out and say he's taken a position, it was discovered through filings. When he was asked about it, he responded.

Or maybe it's just very clever stock manipulation :eek:
 

FrizzleFryBen

macrumors 6502
Dec 14, 2009
416
48
Charlotte, NC
Speaking of uninformed claptrap.

On any given day at any given moment, the markets are not necessarily behaving rationally. But in the final analysis, the markets are all about earnings, and the growth thereof. So no, stock price is not "unrelated" to performance, it is very closely related. Apple posted through three consecutive quarters of declining earnings and (lo and behold!) the stock price when down. What a conspiracy. Now optimism is building that Apple's earnings will begin to grow again, and oddly enough, the stock price is going up again. Double that conspiracy, because it can't be anything else.

I agree with nearly all you say...short of the "uninformed claptrap", sounds all old timey. And I assume you are twirling your moustache while saying so.

I believe the gent was speaking directly to your point about markets not necessarily behaving rationally in the short term. From my perspective, it seems that's what most of your so called "uninformed claptrap(s)" are getting at.
 
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