Help: my Hoya HMC polarizer "stuck" onto my Hoya SUPER HMC Haze UV Filter

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by mtbdudex, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. mtbdudex macrumors 68000

    mtbdudex

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    #1
    Ok;
    I really did not tighten the frackin polarizer filter onto the UV filter hardly at all.
    And now, they are like married. I get them off the lens, but can't unscrew them from each other.

    UV filter was on the lens first, I was at the Mill Pond taking H20 picts so wanted to use my newly purchased polarizer, screwed it on top the UV filter. (my 1st mistake? Should have taken off UV and then put polarizer on?)

    I know others here might have done similar in their noob days, so simple advise on getting them apart is appreciated.

    I've tried with my hands, then I've tried one of those rubber jar twisters to hold one, still can't get apart. I'm afraid to put into a vise, even so slightly, as to damage/crack glass.

    Yea, someone will say "another good reason not to use a UV filter", ok, I typed it for ya.
     
  2. RHVC59 macrumors 6502

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    Location:
    St. Johns, Portland, Oregon
    #2
    you might try a filter wrench like this set
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/251749-REG/General_Brand__Filter_Wrench_Set_of.html
     
  3. mtbdudex thread starter macrumors 68000

    mtbdudex

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    #3
    anybody use these?
    Still, mine are stuck together, not to the lens.

     
  4. Doylem macrumors 68040

    Doylem

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    #4
    Instead of using a jar-top opener (or something similar) which might push the filters slightly out of shape (and thus making them stick together even more), try laying the filters flat on something like this hi-friction opener. Put another one on top, plus something flat (book, say?), press down and turn...

    http://www.lakeland.co.uk/jar-grippers/F/keyword/lid+opener/product/7704
     
  5. jampat macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    #5
    A few other ideas that can work

    a) try lightly squeezing the polarizer at various spots around its circumference while turning.
    b) while gently twisting the two filter rings, tap them on a table, the light shock is normally enough to break them free (hold them really lightly, twisting too hard will result in a death grip and them binding together). This has worked the best for me in the past.
    c) last resort option is the cut a slot into each filter ring so you can directly turn the ring. If you have a hacksaw, cut a slot in each ring, then use two hacksaw blades as keys to turn them. Optically this will be fine, but cutting HMC's in nerveracking

    Good luck.
     
  6. Doylem macrumors 68040

    Doylem

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    #6
    Nah... last resort is skimming them across a pond... ;)
     
  7. iBookG4user macrumors 604

    iBookG4user

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    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    #7
    I don't think that would work, as the circular polarizer rotates, so it would most likely just end up rotating the circular polarizer.

    I would probably buy two of the filter wrenches and use them, as that seems most likely to work.
     
  8. mtbdudex thread starter macrumors 68000

    mtbdudex

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    #8
    Thx everyone, I like the 2 filter wrenches solution best.
    Now I'm looking for a camera store on the drive home.
    Ha - you can tell I'm a noob, all I know is Ritz in the mall.
    I know in Pontiac, MI there is a "Real" camera store, same one I went to in 1984 during my B&W photography class days.

    [edit]
    Ritz camera s*cks (Mich 12mile/Novi),they don't carry these :(
    I'll have to do more searching or order online.
    The clerk there told me to use pliers, choke-choke.
     
  9. compuwar macrumors 601

    compuwar

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    Location:
    Northern/Central VA
    #9
    If you can grab the non-rotating part of the polarizer with the jar opener, then you can use a clean rubber shoe sole to hold the UV filter steady.
     
  10. joepunk macrumors 68030

    joepunk

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    #10
    I've had this happen several times (including several times when I knew it was going to get stuck together I still screwed them together for some reason). Took several long agonizing twists to get them apart. I used one of those rubber jar lid openers like you tried. Worked for me but I don't think I had it as bad as you though.

    Have to say I like that filter wrench idea. Hope it works out for you.
     
  11. mtbdudex thread starter macrumors 68000

    mtbdudex

    Joined:
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    #11
    I feel like letting out a big Charlie Brown "arghhh".

    After messing with this for 10+ minutes I can't twist them apart.
    Tried the jar grabber on the polarizer knurl portion and the UV side, still no.
    Made sure I was doing "lefty-losie" also. (counterclockwise)

    Guess I'm ordering those 58mm filter wrenches, hmm what else can I put on that order from B&H?
    Time to put away my sour grapes and move on.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. alphaod macrumors Core

    alphaod

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    Feb 9, 2008
    Location:
    NYC
    #12
    More lenses? :D
     
  13. Ruahrc macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    #13
    Have you tried rubber bands? Put a rubber band around the non-rotating part of the CPL and it should help improve the grip. I remember I had this happen to me too. It's especially tricky that one of the filters is a CPL that freely rotates. Optical superiority and vignetting aside this is another reason I don't stack filters, and I learned it the hard way :).

    The trick is to apply even pressure all around, as pinching will just make them grip tighter.

    BTW, just in case you're wondering, the reason the filters grip so tightly is because they are likely made out of aluminum and aluminum tends to "bind" with itself when attached. Hence you are experiencing unexpectedly high friction on the threads even though you did not hardly tighten them down at all. Most filters are made out of Al but a few are made out of brass (also the metal filter threads on a lens are likely brass as well) because it does not bind.

    Ruahrc
     
  14. ChrisA macrumors G4

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    Jan 5, 2006
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, California
    #14
    Sticky tape like the white kind used for bandages or for taping up wrsts and ankles works. It can provide some friction

    The problem is the aluminum rings. Threading aluminum into aluminum is bound to stick. B+W uses brass for their rings for this reason. If you have to replace the filters.

    As a last resort after trying trying everything you can buy a lubricant that is specially made for unlocking sized threads at the hardware or auto parts store. But the risk is that you will not be able to remove the stuff, some of it has Teflon suspended in a solvent and leaving it on the glass will defeat the anti-reflective coating.

    One other last resort: Heat the female threads. They should expend but you have to do this quickly to the heat is not transfered and allowed to equalize. But not heated so quickly that the glass cracks.

    Soaking the whole thing in water mixed with soap might work too.

    I've had mixed success. Mostly being low and careful works.
     
  15. jbernie macrumors 6502a

    jbernie

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    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #15
    Not sure if it is appropriate but can you get some WD40, especially the cans with the long straw type nozzle, spray small amounts along the seam between the two filters and then try and twist?

    Be careful on the application as you dont want it all over the edges and lose grip.

    And hey, why not some ducktape wrapped around one filter... ducktape and WD40 are supposed to fix everything :)
     
  16. carlgo macrumors 68000

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    Dec 29, 2006
    #16
    Lay one filter on a bed of ice so that it gets cold and shrinks. Put a hot plate out of the microwave on the top filter so that it expands. Do this quickly enough so that they don't both get either hot or cold and expand or contract together. Some of the other tricks like rubber bands or filter wrenches would help as well.
     
  17. AlaskaMoose macrumors 65816

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    Alaska
    #17
    I would say, "another good reason not to stack filters." There are other reason, too.
     
  18. mtbdudex thread starter macrumors 68000

    mtbdudex

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    #18
    Haven't tried to get them apart, did not order the plastic filter wrenches yet either.

    I like your idea.

    I'll "ice" the male threads filter (polarizer) and heat the female threads filter (UV).
    Saturday morning project....
     
  19. Doylem macrumors 68040

    Doylem

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    #19
    Well... get on with it. Some of us can't eat or sleep until we know how this turns out... :p
     
  20. mtbdudex thread starter macrumors 68000

    mtbdudex

    Joined:
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    #20
    priorities, priorities, priorities.....blu-ray Up! arrived in the mail yesterday, and also 1 of my 4 IB subwoofer drivers was gone for 5 weeks in repair, http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2329 and that also came in yesterday.
    So, I had to re-install that and then watch Up! with the 3 kids/wife/dog.

    As it is my wife feels jealous of the new camera/iMac, lately I've given them more attention then her, staying up late downloading picts/editing, taking early am moon shots....:eek:
     
  21. mtbdudex thread starter macrumors 68000

    mtbdudex

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    Aug 28, 2007
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    #21
    [​IMG]

    Nothing worked, I tried all your suggestions, thx everyone.

    I've got a shopping basket with B&H:
    -filter wrenches
    -Speedlite-430EXII

    I've also got a Canon 24-70mm F/2.8L sitting there, but the wife will konk my head if I buy it w/o her approval, and I'm not sure she'll let me drop $1.2k on a lens just yet.....so most likely just filter wrenches & 430EXII for now....
     
  22. jampat macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    #22
    If it were me, I'd get the 580. If you use any kind of diffuser (ie Stofen, Gary Fong, etc) the 430 really has to work hard. I rarely use my 430 anymore as I borrow a 580 whenever I need a flash. (For me the addition of the sync port, high voltage connection and master capability are also useful). If the 430 will be a second flash for you to use as a slave, go nuts, but for a primary flash, I find it falls a little short.
     
  23. carlgo macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    #23
    Darn, my hot/cold idea didn't work. Oh, well, the filter wrenches can be used to open jars and they are kind of cool. Just leave them around and people will ask what they are. Just answer "I got them from Area 51" and that you can't talk about it.
     
  24. mtbdudex thread starter macrumors 68000

    mtbdudex

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    #24
    As my daughter told me, "if at first you don't succeed, try and try again".
    decided 1 more try, it worked (or I'd not be posting so soon)

    You hot/cold idea, plus rubber band for grip on polarizer, plus jar twister for grip on UV did work tonight.

    Heat up plate in microwave 1 minute.
    Put UV filter down onto that.
    Put kids frozen Nemo pouch on top polarizer filter.
    Wait 1 minute.
    remove, place UV filter onto jar twister.
    Push down and twist polarizer via five fingered grip onto ribber band.
    It frickin worked tonight!!
    [​IMG]

    Don't know why it did not work last time, but this time I was extra careful about grabbing the polarizer filter.

    I'll never double stack filters again.
    and, they go on just light 2-finger tight.

    Thx again.
     
  25. mtbdudex thread starter macrumors 68000

    mtbdudex

    Joined:
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    Location:
    SE Michigan
    #25
    So what you are saying if you are going to get it (flash unit), get it to do the job correctly.

    That's stepping up $150 more....$400 vs $250....

    I need to sleep on that advice, do some reading up.

    I'm leaning then towards the 24-70mm F/2.8L lens for now, and then early 2010 the 580 to spread out the cash flow.
     

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