Here's your future from someone that should know...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by 1458279, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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  2. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #2
    I've never seen anyone get so happy when others are talking about problems in America. I mean, other than radical Muslims. WHy do you hate America?
     
  3. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #3
    Wow, so if there was a storm coming, you'd rather ignore it? It's hate if you pay attention to what's going on? You compare paying attention to current events to people that murder innocent people? Quite a bit of hate right there.
    Oh, yea, thank for the topical insight to the subject matter, the world's a better place after that post:rolleyes:
     
  4. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #4
    I'm just biding my time until I can read robot posts instead of your fear mongering ones.
     
  5. gkarris macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #5
  6. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #6
    do you accept the storm of climate change?
     
  7. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #7
    Ok, that didn't work out too well, try this:
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-03-01/greenspan-i-haven-t-been-optimistic-in-quite-a-while
    --- Post Merged, Mar 1, 2016 ---
    That's interesting that rdowns came out bashing hate without even notice that the future of America was an expensive sports car. How's that for a knee jerk reaction? There was nothing negative in the post and he was right there barking about hate.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 1, 2016 ---
    The climate is about to change this week. We're expecting rain:cool:
     
  8. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #8
    That's weather.

    People who can't understand the difference between daily weather and climate are the same people who don't understand the difference between tactics and strategy.
     
  9. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #9
    --- Post Merged, Mar 1, 2016 ---
    That's interesting that rdowns came out bashing hate without even notice that the future of America was an expensive sports car. How's that for a knee jerk reaction? There was nothing negative in the post and he was right there barking about hate.
    [/QUOTE]


    The Greenspan story was in a text link in the related box next to the picture of the car. I'm smart enough to find source material even when the OP can't.
     
  10. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #10

    The Greenspan story was in a text link in the related box next to the picture of the car. I'm smart enough to find source material even when the OP can't.[/QUOTE]
    Ok, but you didn't mention anything about the validity of what was said. It's a topic about economic and you came out with someone enjoying hate of America and comparing to people known to hate and kill.

    Has nothing to do with economics.
     
  11. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #11
    I wish a 1400 HP Bugatti figured into my future... :(

    edit: watched the first half of the video. He's saying what I've said all along, that a perpetual growth economy is all but unsustainable.
     
  12. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #12
    Greenspan made three (or four) assertions:

    One, China's rate of growth will inevitably slow. (And we can't really trust Chinese economic statistics.)

    Two: Dodd-Frank has not really addressed the issues of financial institutions that are too big to fail.

    Three: Due to entitlement spending, inevitably investment will decline, bringing with it a decline in productivity and income growth.

    Of the three, only the last is somewhat controversial among economists. The basic idea behind that is because the US economy will put too much of its excess cash into funding entitlements, there won't be enough cash left over to invest in machinery and other productive assts.

    Thats a possibility. However, there is little evidence to suggest its either happening now - or will in the immediate future. US companies alone are sitting on five to ten trillion dollars of excess cash. Apple alone has more than half a trillion of that. Why are these companies not investing in productive assets? The simple answer is that they don't really have a pressing need to do so. The more complex answer is that its cheaper for them to borrow money at 4% interest than it is to repatriate, and pay 28% US corporate tax on it.

    Entitlement reform is a valid topic. But unfortunately, entitlement reform actually means a bit more than taking away black teenagers free abortions and food stamps. Entitlement reform actually means cutting Social Security and Medicare spending. Which means making old white people very angry indeed.

    On a more meta note: I find it very difficult to accept the notion that either the US or world economy is on the brink of economic disaster, when there is apparently a healthy market for private automobiles selling for almost three million dollars apiece.
     
  13. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    #13
    Mr. Andrea Mitchell (don't visualize that coupling or you'll need to bleach your eyes) supposedly solved the age-related demographic entitlement issues in the 1980's with St. Reagan. All we have to do is redeem the full faith and credit US government bonds held by the trust fund, just as they designed and created. Surely they didn't defraud the American people.
     
  14. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #14
    It is controversial for a lot of different reasons, it really comes down to where the corporations are holding excess "cash" (more likely highly liquid investments in tax friendly places) and how they are going to spend it. The entitlement crowd rightly points to demographics playing a role as baby boomers shift into retirement and sell off stocks and bonds to support themselves. Some have figured that this will ultimately drive down stock prices in general and corporations looking to buy back stock. That will make the the remaining stock holders happy but does nothing for production. I'm not sure if it's all doom and gloom for the economy out of that third point, but it sure won't help the income divide!

    My biggest problem is the assumption of unbounded growth; it's simply never been realistic, but it's a mathematical short-cut in economic models to not have to factor in restrictions on growth and it's sources.
     
  15. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #15
    Most found it difficult to accept the DotCom and housing crash. It's usually about the time it hits bottom that that most accept it, otherwise we wouldn't have had it in the 1st place.

    The CBO has already said last year that the unfunded mandates will increase by 1 trillion per year in 3 years. Now, it's 2 years away.

    You select auto sales, how about poverty rates, number of people getting aid, or the poor getting poorer, number of people not working, home ownership levels, or any other stats?

    I guess 1 persons view doesn't matter, most held the view that the housing market was just fine. I don't know if they held that opinion after the crash or not, some will never change their views.
     
  16. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #16


    Alan Greenspan isn't predicting that we are on the precipice of an enormous crash. Neither is Warren Buffet. Nor are any serious economists.

    Doubtless, we have some economic challenges. But its important not to get too fixated on big numbers. Unfunded mandates? Yes: An important issue. But you have to ask - quite seriously - what you are going to do about them.

    As I alluded to earlier: You can defund a thousand Planned Parenthoods, and a million NPRs and its not going to make the slightest difference. Thats not where the US Government spends its money. Its paying Social Security and Medicare. Likewise on the revenue side: You, at some point, have to ask why it is that a Hedge Fund manager making $500 million a year actually pays less of a percentage of his income in taxes than his secretary.

    But I don't see Donald Trump or Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio dealing with these issues. They are talking about building useless walls and carpet bombing Syria. Torturing Muslims and talking tough.
     
  17. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #17
    It might not be a cliff, but these things like the national debt and other things slow growth. We need more growth and with all the overhead it just keeps getting harder and harder to break free.

    It's not just at the national level, it's many cities that have these kind of problems, it's simply holding us back. They need to be more realistic in what the government offers it's employees. Most private employees get no pensions yet have to work to pay for the pensions of others that have higher pay to begin with. All this while people are struggling to get by.
     
  18. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #18


    Debt is not necessarily an insurmountable obstacle to growth. US Federal debt was at its highest level immediately after WWII - and that was followed by three decades of the highest GDP and real income growth in our history.

    That was also, might I add, a time when the top marginal personal tax rates were very high (upwards of 70%). This allowed the Government to reduce the overall level of debt - while providing an incentive for business owners and managers to invest in and grow their businesses - rather than cashing out and buying $3 million sport cars.
     
  19. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #19
    An amount of debt can work well. If a business goes in debt for expansion and gets a higher return than the cost of the debt, great.

    It's really an issue of what we get for the debt and what is the cost of servicing the debt. We really don't have much to show for the debt we have. It can be said that most of it is for paying for getting us where we are today, they that would be compared to where we would have been otherwise.

    Pensions are paying people not to work. Most people in the private sector don't get pensions, health care after retirement is the same as a pension, there's no work being done.

    We don't have much expansion or return for the debt we have.

    As far as rich businesses buying sports cars, that at least creates taxes and jobs at the car companies, but it's really an issue of who has the rights to what a person earns. The government has proven that it has no limit to what it can spend. There's a never ending list of people that want. There is however, a limit to people that are able to become high producers. The hole just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

    These debts are a tax on the people, a tax that adds nothing to the economy and takes out of the economy. Imagine if there were no debt and no unfunded mandates, no pensions. How much larger would the economy be? How many more jobs would there be?
     
  20. Meister Suspended

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    #20
    If you accept climate change, you will be saved!

    Repent now!
     
  21. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #21
    *Provided you move to a location 30m above current sea level.
     
  22. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #22
    And sacrifice your first born to al gore.
     

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