Herman Cain 9-9-9 Tax Plan

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by tktaylor1, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. tktaylor1 macrumors 6502a

    tktaylor1

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    #1
    http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/11/news/economy/Herman_Cain_999_tax/index.htm?iid=HP_River

    http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

    I am shocked nobody has started a topic on this already.

    I am kind of confused. Is he adding a 9% sales tax on top of what we have now or just everything is going to be 9%? So say the sales tax is 8%, under this plan would the sales tax be 17% or just 9%?

    Also, according to this article "Problem is, it could end up adding to the deficit and shifting the tax burden away from the wealthy and onto the poor, according to some leading tax experts." Hasn't everyone been complaining this whole time that the wealthy were not paying their fair share yet this plan pushes the burden away from the wealthy and on to the poor. A majority of "poor" people do not pay any taxes anyways, so I think it is time they pony up (even if it is a small amount).

    Also "He also said the sales tax would not increase costs for consumers, because lower corporate taxes would lead businesses to cut prices in order to stay competitive." This is BS, companies are all about the profit which means they will not lower their prices.

    Overall, I think it is a fair system. The more you make, the more you pay. Simple as that.
     
  2. werther macrumors regular

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    #2
    Huh?
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
  4. Abyssgh0st macrumors 68000

    Abyssgh0st

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    #4
    Yeah, explain this please?

    If you're 'entitled' to take pies from people, and one man has 10,000 pies, and another man (2) has 10 pies, why would you take 3 pies from man (2) instead of 3,000 pies from the original man?
     
  5. tktaylor1 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    tktaylor1

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    #5
    "About 22% of taxpayers, primarily low-income earners, pay no taxes and even get money back from tax credits"

    They should still pay something even if it a small amount
     
  6. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #6
    The 9-9-9 deal sounds like something you'd get at one of his pizza joints.

    Herman Cain: Your bull **** delivered in 30 minutes or less or it's free!
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    No taxes? Really? I want you to think about what you're saying. Are you really trying to say that poor people pay absolutely no taxes at all?
     
  8. Abyssgh0st macrumors 68000

    Abyssgh0st

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    #8
    Yes! Everyone knows the poor are exempt from sales tax, gas taxes, etc. :rolleyes:
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #9
    Let's see- there also Social Security taxes and FICA...what more can we list?

    OP- that Republican line of crap is just that- crap.
     
  10. tktaylor1 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    tktaylor1

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    #10
    No, they still pay taxes on food and clothing and things like that. But according to the CNN article "About 22% of taxpayers, primarily low-income earners, pay no taxes and even get money back from tax credits." I am assuming this is income taxes. I just think everybody should pay the same amount based on what they earn. Just seems fair.
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #11
    That's not what you said though. You said that the the poor pay no taxes.

    BTW, if the poor already pay sales tax, what is Cain's point?
     
  12. tktaylor1 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    tktaylor1

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    #12
    Yea, I guess I should have stated that better.
     
  13. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #13
    this is a new Federal sales tax that would be added to the State & Local sales taxes you already pay...........so in your example, the 17% figure would be the new total sales tax you would pay
     
  14. tktaylor1 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    tktaylor1

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    #14
    That's no fun, but I still agree with the income part.
     
  15. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #15
    666 plan

    From http://www.grumpypolitico.com/2011/09/analysis-herman-cains-999-plan/

    There is also an analysis of the fairtax/flat tax proposal on this site. I suggest anyone who advocates for these proposals take a look and run your own numbers.
     
  16. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #16
    The usual question about flat tax proposals is whether the proposed rate would actually provide enough cash to pay the bills. They become a lot less attractive when it turns out that the rate would actually need to be significantly higher.

    flat tax proposals always seem attractive to the middle class tax payer............until they discover that THEIR taxes would be going up too :p
     
  17. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #17

    But, the real problem is that you and many others believe the lies told to you about this. I don't use the word lightly -- the people peddling this point of view are doing so with malicious intent. The actual picture looks something like this:


    [​IMG]

    Now, what would Herman Cain's plan do? Apparently (who knows for real -- Michele Bachmann stated it: "The devil is in the details" ha ha) substitute Federal sales tax for Federal income tax, further increasing taxes on the poor and middle class and reducing them on the wealthy.

    Bottom line: why do you believe that the Republican candidates have your best interests in mind?
     
  18. Liquorpuki macrumors 68020

    Liquorpuki

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    #18
    It would be on top of the State tax. So here in California, I'd be paying 18% sales tax for everything I buy. Good luck getting voters to go along with this.

    I don't follow your logic here
     
  19. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #19
    Thanks for posting. I'm trying to follow this analysis. I've never done tax work. I'd appreciate you explaining a couple of things about the "Poor Peter" scenario. I may just not be reading it the right way.

    What does it mean that, under the current structure, Peter pays a negative net income tax of 28%? Does that mean, in simple terms, merely that he pays no income tax? And then, separate and apart from not paying any income tax, he receives a payment of $8,600 (less the payroll taxes)?

    I'm confused by the terminology and/or the concept of an individual paying a negative tax rate. Do you have to apply Peter's tax credits to get that number? Why not separate them out for what they actually are?

    Thanks.
     
  20. bassfingers macrumors 6502

    bassfingers

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    #20
    I'll take 3,003 pies. Problem solved
     
  21. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #21
    There are taxpayers who, with credits, receive more back from the Federal Government than they paid in income withholdings. This results in a negative tax rate. They may pay sales taxes, gas taxes, etc..., but in this example, those amounts are assumed to be minimal for comparison purposes.

    BTW, I'm not an accountant, so I'm probably the wrong guy to ask about how the numbers work.

    (edit) To BF - the problem is that it's not quite so simple. If you have, one person who makes10,000 pies, and 99 people who make 10 pies (990 total pies), you have a much more similar situation to what we have now. Assume it takes about 5-6 pies just to survive.

    The problem is that the cost of running the government is more than 3,297. Do you make up the difference by taking more from the people who only have 7 pies left, of which they only have 1 or 2 of which that are available to buy goods and services or more from the guy who has 7,000?
     
  22. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #22
    Regardless, it's fairly obvious that Cain's tax plan punishes Poor Peter- not just a little, a LOT.
     
  23. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #23
    So in other words, Cain's plan screws over the poor and middle class and helps the rich.

    And yet, how many poor and middle class people are going to vote for him because he wants to ban teh evil gays from serving in the military or getting married or some bogus crap like that?
     
  24. tktaylor1 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    tktaylor1

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    #24
    Why doesn't any of these scenarios have sales tax under the current tax codes but under the 9-9-9 plan they do?
     
  25. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #25
    Because, right now, there is no federal sales tax (the examples all look at federal taxes only). However, the state sales taxes should largely be a wash, since the state tax rate does not change as a result of the proposal, unless the individual spends more/less money on taxable goods and services as a result of the change.

    I personally am not overly crazy about poor individuals who pay net negative federal income taxes. However, I would start with just eliminating that and putting them at or closer to zero before I went and did something like this. It sounds gimmicky to me, more than it sounds like it has any solid reason to work or to solve problems we have now.
     

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