Hillary Clinton: Single-payer health care will "never, ever" happen

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Jan 30, 2016.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #1
    Wall Street's spokeswoman has spoke.

    Obamacare was a HUGE handout to the insurance companies. Of course Hillary supports it. Man, how many times in one day can Hillary sell-out?
     
  2. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

    WarHeadz

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2015
    Location:
    Los Angeles
  3. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #3
    It's a tax simply for being alive
     
  4. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Location:
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    #4
    When you break your leg, you'll be glad you have insurance.

    My mom's recent trip to the hospital ran up a bill just a tad over $200,000. She only had to pay $500 out of pocket.

    Even accounting for all the years my parents have been paying for insurance, they've probably spent about half that much on it out of pocket. They now see their insurance as having given them a hefty net gain on their investment.
     
  5. AdonisSMU macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    #5
    She lost my vote. Trump and Sanders it is....
     
  6. fitshaced macrumors 68000

    fitshaced

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    #6
    Its a tax for helping you stay alive, surely.
     
  7. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Location:
    Universe 0 Timeline
    #7
    Hillary's got Nancy for company:

    House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi maintains she isn't taking sides in the Democratic primary for president, but pushed back against Bernie Sanders' pledge that he would raise taxes to pay for his health care plan, saying flatly on Wednesday, "We're not running on any platform of raising taxes."
    ...
    But the top House Democrat didn't mince words when it came to Vermont Senator Sanders' health care proposal, dismissing the notion of a single-payer health care plan, curtly saying, "That's not going to happen."
    ...
    But then Pelosi took another pointed swipe at Sanders' plan, saying, "It's no use having a conversation about something that's not going to happen."
     
  8. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #8
    So's car insurance and buildings insurance. And if you have any sense contents insurance and travel insurance.
     
  9. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #9
    Don't want to pay car or buildings insurance, simply don't own those things. Contents or travel insurance, not required and therefore not at all similar to the ACA.

    However if you don't want to pay for health insurance (or pay a financial penalty) you only have one option. Die.

    Therefore, it is a tax on being alive.

    Everyone should have health coverage. But nobody should be forced into it if they want to make the (risky) decision not to buy it.
     
  10. AdonisSMU macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    #10
    The problem is that if someone shows up to a hospital they have to treat them. What that means is everyone else ends up paying higher insurance costs and healthcare costs to cover the uninsured.
     
  11. Huntn, Jan 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016

    Huntn Suspended

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #11
    Is she being a realist? It would take an un-fractured Congress for UHC to happen. She states clearly she is for health care reform. The problem is that people in this country want stuff for free. We will need to rework legal (litigation) , medical providers, and insurance behemoths. My health insurance is far from free costing me $10k per year in premiums for 2 of us, almost as much as a mortgage. In an ideal situation, would costs go down? I can't say.
     
  12. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #12
    Thats not 100% true. EMTALA laws dictate that everyone must be stabilized, but there's nothing in there that requires hospitals to admit every lonely 55 year old lady with a stomach ache.

    Having more insured may reduce costs some, but changing how we do things in the health care industry here would go further.
     
  13. AdonisSMU macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    #13
    Assuming what you said is true. How does one even define stabilized? Because doctors and hospitals can get sued it translates into treated for all practical purposes.
     
  14. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #14
    I can see both sides to this.

    Nothing gets changed without congress, and with both the House and Senate controlled by Republicans, that simply isn't going to happen. So Hillary is emphasizing what is realistic under our current circumstances, which helps to define her candidacy to become the nominee. Bernie, on the other hand, is taking the more ideological path, promoting what should be our goal, instead of what is doable in this current political climate.

    One reason I prefer Sanders, is that if he got elected, he could point to congress as the obstacle to those aspirations and give the people a reason for booting out the Republicans. And even if that didn't come about, he could still use his position to remind the people what they could have, instead of what Obama settled for.
     
  15. thermodynamic, Jan 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016

    thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #15
    And until now we all thought health care was about "life and liberty" and not taxation until death.

    Dude, I hope you never grow old or up (read that in any way you like, anything health-related can happen to any one at any time, and a lot of places, even your chiropractor, have you sign stuff that absolves them of their screwing up your life. So much for your 'personal responsibility' memes too...)

    Also, explain why:

    a) anything health care related costs 3~50x as much in the US as it does in developed countries
    b) a 3 mile ambulance trip costs $2000
    c) insurance companies gouging customers, citing "high risk" for anyone with preexisting conditions - like the newborn initially denied coverage for her heart condition (IT MADE THE MAINSTREAM NEWS, LOOK IT UP)
    d) why insurance costs went up and up long before Romneycare was put on a national level and called the ACA, for him to spew hate at until 2015 when Romney finally admitted what everyone was saying in articles comparing ACA to Romneycare - that his own plan was the basis for Obamacare. How could he spend years hating his own damn creation?
    e) wages continue to stagnate make paying for yourself harder...

    If Romney represents you, then you and he are almost schizophrenic with the inconsistencies.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 31, 2016 ---
    Okay, then why do so many presidents veto what congress gives them, just because there's a provision that's anti-American citizen mixed in? Why has no president vetoed a bill that they know is going to hurt people, instead of begrudgingly signing while looking like a sad bunny rabbit?

    Let's play "devil's advocate" because I clearly never have before (/sarcasm):

    What political client? Apart from corporations' lobbyists wanting tax laws and more H1Bs for Americans to train as their replacements... Mr Clinton, until 2009, was "the best president republicans ever had" until Mr Obama deserved the term some 7 years after compromising with all his continuing GOP policies (despite getting little in return, as TYT and other news outlets have reported on time and again) and keeping GOP people in his staff because he's really just playing chess and not putting in change that would benefit Americans? How does a person running on change end up doing nothing more but compromising? Even when he had a filibuster-proof majority for the few months before everything happened, the Democrats didn't exactly start working at a fast pace...
    --- Post Merged, Jan 31, 2016 ---
    I agree, she could be a realist, but wouldn't she at least TRY instead of preemptively wallowing in pity?! Or was she so, what's the phrase, "butthurt" by Limbaugh and others in 1994 that she's too scared to try "womb to the tomb" ideas that help people again?

    But, as people recall from the day mainstream media told the story of a newborn girl denied coverage for heart surgery due to a "preexisting condition", never mind the years and decades that premiums went up by double digit percentages just so "more record profits for our leechlike stock owners because they're more valuable than workers who do the work to make them rich" could be made, people should have figured it out it's all a rigged casino?
     
  16. Huntn Suspended

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #16
    I agree that for Universal Healthcare to happen, something I'd like to see happen, it will take a populace movement, led by someone who wants it to happen... advantage Sanders. If I was to guess, it would be that Clinton is trying to position herself for the general election.
     
  17. AdonisSMU macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    #17
    They did work at a fast pace. Nancy Pelosi is the most productive house speaker in history. So your claim that congress wasn't getting anything done under Obama's first two years as president is false. Secondly, Joe Lieberman blocked Single payer health care and various other things that the country needed to move forward. Ted Kennedy died in the summer of 2009. Democrats only had 60 votes for maybe 6months remember the first few months were spent sorting out the Minnesota election mess.
     
  18. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #18
    Stabilized not in imminent danger of death and/or disability.

    For example...take the lady I was called on to admit overnight for a condition called "failure to thrive". Basically she was very thin and having trouble gaining weight, and needed some intensive nutrition therapy and monitoring. She was otherwise entirely medically stable. She was admitted so we could find a nursing home to place her in. Something that could have been done effectively from home, in concert with a Primary Care Physician. Instead we spent thousands of dollars to do nothing more than house her overnight, before sending her out in the morning to the nursing home.

    Or the 19 year old teen who came to the ED complaining of a sore on his "little buddy" which had been present for 3 weeks and was tender but otherwise asymptomatic. Thousands of dollars worth of hospital time later I saw him and told him to lay off the "me time" as he put it, or at least pick a better lubricant. They actually brought that guy back to be seen in the ED. That's ridiculous and money wasted.

    That type of thing is common.
     
  19. Huntn Suspended

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #19
    Thousands of dollars to spend one night in a hospital and probably a couple of $15 aspirins to boot, I think you are onto something. ;)
     
  20. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Location:
    L.A. (Lower Alabama)
    #20
    I believe the goals of both Clinton and Sanders are the same. Clinton is just more pragmatic in her approach. Sanders doesn't seem to know the answer to the old question - how do you eat an elephant.

     
  21. AdonisSMU macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    #21
    There are many cases where stabilize = treatment. If she had been about to die you would've had to treat and you still spent 1000's of dollars regardless and still didn't stop her from dying or coming back when her condition got worse.
     
  22. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #22
    Nope, no aspirins. Just a stay in a hospital bed with telemetry (because the hospital sees that as a $6,000 per night risk management strategy) and a phone call in the morning. Couple grand I'm sure.

    fact is, some people belong in the hospital and others should go see a PCP or an urgent care center. Our system isn't good at triaging people to the right categories.
     
  23. Huntn Suspended

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #23
    For anyone interested in reading about the EMTALA- Emergency Treatment and Labor Act (1986). :)
     
  24. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #24
    I was for Bernie until Chelsea Clinton informed us that he will completely dismantle Obamacare and then nobody will have health insurance . You see, Bernie Sanders is anti-health care.
     
  25. thermodynamic, Jan 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016

    thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #25
    Yeah, Chelsea's comments were surprising, ill-conceived, and with grammatical skills that are said to be the norm for lazy millennials by the (liberal!) media! It's certainly ill-timed, and did not improve Hillary's chances as a result of the gaffe. Isn't she married to a wall street hedge fund gambler too? There couldn't possibly be any bias beginning to form?

    Her own words:

    Really? Especially as the ACA is built on Romneycare, which news outlets spelled out for YEARS despite Romney (for years decrying) until he eventually admitted the truth? And insinuating Sanders has no plan of any sort? Really, Chelsea?! You're supposed to be better than stooping to that level of spin and manure! Especially as Democrats gave more than permission to Republicans for putting in a Republican system, as a so-called fix for the problem that Republicans helped create and along with price gougers! Your comments only support the GOP and gougers, and certainly say nothing about fixing the existing system, which is still as broken as it was before, only more expensive now thanks to even more paperwork (which I thought the Republicans hated??! Don't tell me they would strip out only the expensive forms but still leave the rest so others can have insurance (for which I've heard from friends that the cost is so high they can't afford it and the penalty paid is cheaper, though they get nothing as a result... that's worth supporting? What am I missing out on, which must be a lot and I apologize if I am ignorant, but something doesn't seem right and I'll agree I might be missing out on the facts, but others were obvious and to deny those by playing the partisanship card is still wrong to do.)


    Sources, even though a bing search takes 2 seconds:
    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...ly-admits-that-obamacare-came-from-romneycare

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...eycare-and-obamacare-can-you-tell-difference/

    Anyone can look up scores of articles of Romney saying he wanted to end it, dismantle it, etc, because he hated it back between 2010 and 2014 prior to his coming out and admitting it's his baby on a national level. He was a joke and a farce in election 2012 over hating his own system!


    --- Post Merged, Jan 31, 2016 ---
    Okay, I do agree that the centrists are right and Wall Street is just as much America as Main Street. Shouldn't be any less or more than Main Street, that's fair and legitimate. So can we ask the question - What does it take for health care costs to go back down to be affordable so we can take care of ourselves more easily (as customers or workers in the industry) while their profits can continue to go up by double digits as much as premium costs go up by double digits (which was happening long before 2010's toothless reform that originated from the GOP, the party of "no change", no less)? Can she answer that? Can any of them running for office? Getting rid of tax loopholes would be a start, and politicians for over a decade and from both major parties all acknowledged the problem at one time or another -- and yet none of them can work together on issues they commonly otherwise agree on? How wacked a system is this that we, the people want?!
     

Share This Page