Hillary Is the Candidate of the War Machine

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Oct 21, 2016.

  1. jkcerda Suspended

    jkcerda

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    #1
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-sachs/hillary-is-the-candidate_b_9168938.html
    that is what you are supporting/endorsing. years of settling for the "lesser" evil is how we got here.
     
  2. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #2
    Of course this is a blog, but hard to believe I'd see this kind of bull on Huff Post.

    Hillary’s record as Secretary of State is among the most militaristic, and disastrous, of modern US history. Some experience. Hilary was a staunch defender of the military-industrial-intelligence complex at every turn, helping to spread the Iraq mayhem over a swath of violence that now stretches from Mali to Afghanistan. Two disasters loom largest: Libya and Syria.
     
  3. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #3
    She has the Kagans advising her. The ****ing Kagans.

    I don't understand how this is hard for people to hear, she's been itching for a no fly zone (aka, initiation to a full war) in Syria for years now. She is a regime-change minded militarist.

    Can we stop pretending that just because we have to vote for this woman that she doesn't have an abysmal record of supporting needless wars and interventions? Can we be honest? Even if that honesty starts November 9th, can we just tell the damn truth and try to prevent yet another escalation of the American Corporate Military machine war tactics?
     
  4. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #4
    I don't think it's all that simple. Who started the ball rolling in the Middle East? Who inherited a mess? Now based on that, what is the responsible thing to do? We can pack our bags and become isolationists, and say sorry about that, or we can try to stay engaged and push for the best outcome. No matter what, people will die. If we walk away now, will our hands magically become clean?
     
  5. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #5
    No they won't, nor will ignoring Russia's aggression make peace more likely.
     
  6. jkcerda thread starter Suspended

    jkcerda

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    #6
    so because someone else commited war crimes democrats have no choice but to continue with said war crimes? NO ONE SAID BECOME ISOLATIONIST, no one. we can deal with whomever wins. our hands are dirty as **** just messing things up there even more.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 21, 2016 ---
    you mean Russias defence of their ally? how HORRIBLE of them, how DARE THEY support Assad who is their ally?
    Hillary KNOWS WHO FUNDS ISIS but let's go kill Assad instead :rolleyes:
     
  7. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #7
    So you like Assad? And you define "war" as equivalent to "a crime" when the US is involved. No...continue making the war mongering claims, give Russia a pass, and continue the conversation with someone else who wants to waste time countering your posts at least on this topic. :oops:
     
  8. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #8
    Russia has the right to support any crackpot dictator they want. Personally, I am somewhat relieved they are making themselves targets for extremists, for perhaps there will be fewer taking their aim at us now. However, whatever Russia and the US want, part of the reason the US sits on the UN 'Security Council' is to prevent the kind of blood-letting currently going on in Syria. If we're going to be isolationist and stick our heads in the ground, we might as well quit the SC.
     
  9. jkcerda thread starter Suspended

    jkcerda

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    #9
    so you like war crimes? :rolleyes:
    if a republican was doing this you guys would be against it. there is no reason to take out Assad. pray/say/tell WHEN was "War" declared on Syria/Assad?
    --- Post Merged, Oct 21, 2016 ---
    again, who the hell said ANYTHING about being isolationist? the blood letting got worse in Libya IMHO once we took out Kaddafy for "humanitarian" reasons. 1000's still die and millions have fled since O-stupid "liberated" them.
     
  10. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #10
    You're not listening.

    The neocons, the Kagans being front and center, have been pushing to intervene in every single country we've invaded or "defended" in the last decade. These are the people that wrote the PNAC along with Jeb Bush, Wolfowitz, Kristol, etc. Almost two decades later we are marching into conflict with every country the PNAC paper wanted us to, almost in the same order. That's not a coincidence, that's the thought and policy shaping cabal of neocon influence peddlers still having power in DC.

    Victoria Nulan is the wife of one of the Kagans and is the head of European affairs, basically the director of our policy in Ukraine. You know her because she was the one that had audio leaked of her choosing the Ukrainian president/PM (can't remember what they have)...and lo and behold he's the new leader.

    Robert Kagan (Nulan's husband) is one of the most influential think tank policy makers (you know the drill, think tank with certain influential figures puts out a policy paper, the exact policy goes into effect in Washington) AND was a special advisor in Clintons innermost circle when she was Secretary of State.


    Personel is policy, Clinton has surrounded herself with the definitive who's who of neocon policy makers (the ones that haven't been banished after the W years) and aligns directly with their views. The entire no-fly zone push originated in the Kagan's think tank.
     
  11. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #12
    I thought it was to veto any decisions that might make the US accountable on the world stage. You know Reagan was actually declared a war criminal by International Court of Justice (a world body) but the decision had to go through the SC but it was veto'd by the US right?
     
  12. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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  13. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #14
    Appropriate links, please.
     
  14. jkcerda thread starter Suspended

    jkcerda

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    #15
    you spelled "war criminal" wrong..
     
  15. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #16
    So you're thinking we would have been better off supporting the "greater" evil? :p
     
  16. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #17
    Project for the New American Century - Wikipedia Authors include Robert Kagan and his father Frederick Kagan
    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/02/25/neocon-kagan-endorses-hillary-clinton/
    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/04/11/yats-is-no-longer-the-guy/
    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/23...onservative-to-fundraise-for-hillary-clinton/


    The Kagans (Nuland is Robert Kagans wife) even rebranded PNAC as the Center for a new American Security, who's white paper basically outlines the strategy the US is currently using. I have it on my iPad currently and it's essentially a rehashed "Rebuilding America's Defenses", the hallmark PNAC document that outlined the Bush administrations foreign policy several years before he actually got elected (quick summary http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3249.htm). That included attacking Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Libya, and a few others.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_a_New_American_Security
     
  17. jkcerda thread starter Suspended

    jkcerda

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    #18
    :mad::mad::mad::mad: NO EVIL.......
     
  18. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #19
    sorry, nobody by that name on the ballot. :p
     
  19. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #20
    Whatever economic credentials Jeffrey Sachs might have, he completely loses the plot whenever he starts talking about "war parties."

    There is no "war party" in the United States. Why? Because all things considered, war is bad for business. It introduces uncertainty, which rational businesspeople don't like. It disrupts markets. It raises insurance premiums. It makes the cost of doing every sort of business imaginable much, much higher.

    Goldman Sachs can make far more money selling bonds for water desalinization plants and container ports than ever could hope to make by taking a position in Lockheed Martin or Raytheon. If you take a look at the Fortune 500 US largest US companies, which ones - precisely - would benefit from armed conflict? Wal-Mart? Apple? Exxon-Mobil? Berkshire-Hathaway? AT&T? Costco? Microsoft? Home Depot?

    Name any country in crisis, anywhere in the world, and American business has far more to gain by selling them smartphones and prescription medicines; by offering them credit cards and cheap airline seats, than it could possibly ever make selling smart bombs and tank parts to the Pentagon.
     
  20. NT1440, Oct 21, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016

    NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #21
    Ah, the old trade prevents war mindset.

    Do you understand the role defense contractors and banks have in rebuilding after we bomb? It's a twofer, and it is to the tune of hundreds of billions a year worldwide. Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, UBS, they all administer the contracts that countries use to raise funds for rebuilding infrastructure AND military after the fact.

    $6 Trillion lost by the Pentagon since 2000, mostly in contracting with third party manufacturers and service providers....you go ahead and think that there is no massive financial windfall for US interests in war, we'll be by the pool living in the real world if you'd like to join us.

    http://www.ibtimes.com/winner-most-iraq-war-contracts-kbr-395-billion-decade-1135905
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/22/companies-profiting-from-war_n_6919292.html
    http://time.com/24735/here-are-the-5-companies-making-a-killing-off-wars-around-the-world/
    https://www.publicintegrity.org/2007/11/19/5982/top-100-contractors-iraq-afghanistan
    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/contractors-385-billion-military-bases
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/12/11/war-profiteering-from-vietnam-to-iraq/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_100_Contractors_of_the_U.S._federal_government

    Let's be real here. Trillions pissed away. $385 BILLION in just base contracts.
     
  21. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #22
    Actually my understanding is that the US was found to have acted illegally in Central America during Reagan's time. The US withdrew from the Court so it didn't have to pay the fine. I don't think Reagan was actually named as a war criminal though - correct me if I am wrong.
     
  22. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #23
  23. zin macrumors 6502

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    #24
    The Clinton supporters are not interested in hearing about what they are supporting because Colonel Cheeto said mean things. Hillary is everything liberals despise, yet she is the one they want.
     
  24. jkcerda thread starter Suspended

    jkcerda

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    #25
    [​IMG]
     

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