Hillary slams moveon.org in closed door meeting

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by leekohler, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #1
    Well, well, well...if anyone has any doubts that Hillary is power-hungry and will say anything, doubt no more. She should be ashamed of herself, especially given the fact that this organization was started as a reaction to her husband's impeachment. I'm sorry, but this is the last straw. This should be broadcast by the Obama campaign right away. Stevento- you can't defend this one. She just slammed her base. She outright lied more than few times as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHmeuMfVK5I
     
  2. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #2
    Moveon really isn't her base, though, is it? I mean, it seems like they, dailykos, and huffington post are all pro-Obama. It seems like Hillary's base is comprised of old people and the more moderate/centrist wing of the Democratic party.

    I was already going to vote 3rd party if she got the nomination, so her recent cry baby moment doesn't affect my already negative opinion of her.
     
  3. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    If she were to get nominated, she would need that whole crowd in order to get elected. To crap on that group is basically crapping on the whole anti-war movement. Not a smart move on her part. Lying about Afghanistan wasn't cool either, but I guess we should be used to that by now anyway.
     
  4. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #4
    They didn't used to be. Moveon actually had a poll awhile ago to ask who they should endorse, and Obama won overwhelmingly. They still hadn't been really speaking out against her too much, she did this some time ago, even if the media was more focused on Obama's bitter remarks, but they've gotten more aggressive since then. And yeah, big slap in the face. Add to the hawkish comments she's been making, the pro-gun pandering, and, well, everything else we've hashed over numerous times here, it's like she's running to out GOP McCain or something. Seems odd to do when you're duking it out for the Dem Primary, even the general, but there it is. I doubt most of those people like her anyway though, so she probably didn't care if she was burning any bridges.

    I mean, that's like McCain distancing himself from the fundies... oh, wait.
     
  5. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #5
    You're right. It is exactly that crowd that Hillary will need, and will not have if she gets the nomination. Which is exactly why a Hillary nomination = McCain victory.
     
  6. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #6
    And don't expect those people to forget either. They are very politically active, and they vote.
     
  7. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    When did she "pander" to "pro-gun" types?

    I think that Obama's line about "bitter" blue collar people "clinging" to guns demonstrated a clumsy, stereotypical characterization of gun owners as a group that I find irritating, and one that the Democrats roll out.

    Can't you vote Dem and own a gun? The lines are drawn so firmly between the parties there is absolutely no middle ground. I guess I have to vote GOP, because I'm an evil gun owner. :rolleyes:

    I'm still leaning towards Obama, but I'm getting tired of the race and the candidates' banter.
     
  8. stevento macrumors 6502

    stevento

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    #8
    i'm not defending this one. i dont condone it. and this story is couple days old so if they were going to broadcast it, monday night would have been the time. who ever had doubts that hillary was power hungry and that she would say anything to win?


    what basis is there to say mccain could beat hillary?
    if she wins obama will use a great inspirational speech to tell his supporters to vote for her and that's what they'll do
     
  9. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #9
    Nah- you have to take the good with the bad, as long as there's more good. ;) Remember, I'm not exactly against gun ownership either. But for her to do this and lie straight to our faces about it is truly amazing.
     
  10. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #10
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-katovsky/hillary-get-your-gun_b_96893.html

    It was very poorly worded, especially worse saying to a SF audience. Talk about giving the opposition some stereotypical ammo (no pun intended). He's since backtracked, saying he was misquoted (kinda, but not really). I actually kinda wished he'd gone more with what he originally seemed to mean, about the GOP capitalizing on things like guns and god, and immigration, when times are bad, when there are more pressing issues. Now he's saying he meant it as a compliment or something. Just when you think we're back on the straight talk express and they're going to go back to treating us like adults, the poll numbers slip and they turn back into politicians. :rolleyes:

    We expect better of Obama, but as I keep saying, we really shouldn't.

    The Dems aren't going to do anything about guns. I was watching something this weekend where there were people in PA, what we might think of as stereotypical "gun totin' rednecks" (god I hate our media) who were being asked what they thought of Obama's comments. Instead of what the interviewers expected, most of them actually agreed with him. Insulting misquote and all. One of them said it didn't matter who won, they'd still have their guns, but they only trusted one person to help them with their real issues. Like the economy. And it wasn't McCain (though one person did support him, because they seem to still think he's a maverick, despite the recent flip flops like now being for the tax cuts he used to be against).

    I don't know if I trust Obama to do anything as much as they seem to, but as I keep saying, as long as he doesn't make things worse, I will consider it a win compared to what we have had.

    Ditto.

    Thank you.
     
  11. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #11
    Well, on the one hand, moveon.org supports Obama, so she can rightly view the organization as an opponent, and it's perfectly reasonable to expect her to assess their impact on her campaign and how to counter it.

    Her last few lines are a little on the emotional side but this is a pretty serious political contest so emotions will run high.

    Something I dislike more than what the candidates are saying in sound bites is the fact that the pressure is so intense to find something to use against a candidate. Could you imagine being in a situation where everything you say or do at any time could be taken (possibly out of context) and run through the media gauntlet? It's sick.

    I'm sick of sound bites from the media...I want to hear about issues. I think Hillary's threat to obliterate Iran is more alarming than her dislike for moveon.org...
     
  12. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #12
    Maybe, but this is probably not the way to do it. They had a poll on who their supporters were voting for, and Obama won. They weren't really attacking her, but she's turning it into that. Especially after the recent hawkish comments she's been making, now I'm sure they will, and it could actually hurt her. It definitely would have in the general, because they are part of the Dem base.

    True, and there are a lot of things that are being twisted while other things are completely ignored, but maybe they should just stop saying such stupid things. :p

    Sigh, we all would. See the ABC debates. But good luck with that. Issues don't garner viewers and readers and listeners apparently the way controversy does, manufactured or not.

    Something I didn't notice if they'd brought up yet, but I'm sure they will now.
     
  13. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    They're both alarming. Both illustrate that she obviously doesn't understand how sick of the war most people are. The other alarming component is how she says one thing in public, and the exact opposite behind closed doors. I'm not saying no one else does it, but to do it to this degree is very telling.
     
  14. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    Maybe. I don't want to sound like I'm supporting Hillary so much as not really wanting to support anyone these days. I will vote in the election (I think it's wrong not to), but I'm already feeling apathetic about our next administration, how sad is that?

    Pretty much the only thing I can say is that things will be better than they were under Bush. Which ain't saying much. :rolleyes:

    Concerning the Iran comment - the thing that angers me is not the threat to obliterate Iran in response to a nuclear attack, so much as the fact that Hillary seems to be expressing unconditional support for Israel just like EVERY politician in Washington (including Obama). As long as we do that the Isreal/Palestine question will never be solved, and the issue will be a rallying point for anti-American politics and terrorism in the the region.

    Until we twist the Israelis arm on it they will never be inclined to make territorial concessions to the Palestinians. And the ME peace process will continue to produce stillborn initiatives punctuated by periods of undeclared warfare.

    I feel that Obama is weak on foreign policy...while he hasn't made such an obvious gaffe as Clinton, he has failed to say much at all.
     
  15. stevento macrumors 6502

    stevento

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    #15
    you're welcome, but i will say this. people shouldn't not vote for because of things like this. you can dislike her all you want, but you shouldn't vote based on who you like.

    hey the nbc and cnn debates they used to have were totally substantive. imo, only the abc debates are the ones where they talk about "who did your hair last week?" type of issues.
     
  16. psychofreak Retired

    psychofreak

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    #16
    Not Rice, she's made that very clear

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21288370/
     
  17. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #17
    When do you not? Face it, we haven't had too many great candidates in awhile now. Obama gives good speeches. If he can surround himself with good people and not get bogged down in legitimate controversy, he might not be awful

    How about this, she's saying and doing a lot of things we don't like.

    Not really, they just weren't as bad. Still barely talk about the real issues. Complete with substance and details of their plans. I don't want to have to wade through their websites, which I do, and I still don't get much needed details. I know, details are boring. So what. The debates and the news shouldn't be about ratings anyway.

    And what ever came of that? Nothing. All talk.
     
  18. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    Hurrah then, assuming it isn't just a platitude. Her academic background is in Cold War politics, I believe, so she should understand that Israel's alliance with us during the Cold War may have outlived it's usefulness.

    Which isn't to say we should stab them in the back, but we need to put them under real pressure to sit down with the Palestinians and make a compromise.

    Israel will never do that with Hamas, however. They will stall for time until Hamas either gets voted out or toppled.
     
  19. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #19
    Right after she did that, didn't we give them a bunch of money?
     

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