Hoekstra and RNC fundraising off terrorism

Is it appropriate to use the threat of terrorism to fundraise?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • No

    Votes: 15 93.8%

  • Total voters
    16

akutad

macrumors regular
Jul 12, 2008
150
0
London, Ontario, Canada
Are you in any way offended that Hoekstra and the RNC are trying to raise money off the terrorism plot in Detroit?
Offended or not, whatever we focus on expands. The more we focus on terrorism the bigger it gets. If North America could focus on peace then and only then will peace begin to expand. Remember.... Mother Teresa never attended a anti-war or anti-terrorism rally. She said if you have a peace rally, invite me.
 

mcrain

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Feb 8, 2002
1,768
11
Illinois
Offended or not, whatever we focus on expands. The more we focus on terrorism the bigger it gets. If North America could focus on peace then and only then will peace begin to expand. Remember.... Mother Teresa never attended a anti-war or anti-terrorism rally. She said if you have a peace rally, invite me.
The goal of terrorism is to disrupt your target and cause terror. It seems to me that what the Republicans are doing is helping the terrorists achieve their goals.

Yes, that's a very harsh statement, but no harsher than being told I'm unamerican, unpatriotic or giving comfort to the enemy because I questioned the evidence and need of going to war in Iraq.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
Administration made many stupid moves following the attempted attack to try to downplay, what do you expect? And more importantly, is this any different?
 

akutad

macrumors regular
Jul 12, 2008
150
0
London, Ontario, Canada
The goal of terrorism is to disrupt your target and cause terror. It seems to me that what the Republicans are doing is helping the terrorists achieve their goals.

Yes, that's a very harsh statement, but no harsher than being told I'm unamerican, unpatriotic or giving comfort to the enemy because I questioned the evidence and need of going to war in Iraq.
Just be careful of worrying of what other people/outside forces think. I understand it can be a challenge.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
Those moves were a lot better than what Bush did after 9/11.
No one on this board besides a few selects even liked or voted for Bush anyways, added to that Obama has continued the abomination known as the "patriot" act. Its surprising after 9/11 that we would try to downplay something as serious as this, I am just glad that nothing really happened and that we are playing political games instead of having to deal with 300 dead. Napolitano should still be fired, and Obama should make sure to have all facts before addressing the nation, or at least say "we are looking into it" instead of auto coming out with a "isolated terrorist" caption.
 

mcrain

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Feb 8, 2002
1,768
11
Illinois
No one on this board besides a few selects even liked or voted for Bush anyways, added to that Obama has continued the abomination known as the "patriot" act. Its surprising after 9/11 that we would try to downplay something as serious as this, I am just glad that nothing really happened and that we are playing political games instead of having to deal with 300 dead. Napolitano should still be fired, and Obama should make sure to have all facts before addressing the nation, or at least say "we are looking into it" instead of auto coming out with a "isolated terrorist" caption.
Downplay? Bush waited about a week before responding after Richard Reed, the shoebomber, tried his attack. Afterwards, he had Reed tried in criminal court, not some military tribunal.

Obama, while in Hawaii, obtained information and responded in half the time. You want him to have all the facts, but he downplayed this somehow? What?

Napolitana said that once the attempted attack occured, the system worked in notifying other planes and implementing enhanced security protocols.

She also said that security failed in allowing this guy on the plane in the first place, but again, don't forget that happened in Europe. Europe, the last time I checked, is not under the US' control.
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
19
Chicago, Illinois
No one on this board besides a few selects even liked or voted for Bush anyways, added to that Obama has continued the abomination known as the "patriot" act. Its surprising after 9/11 that we would try to downplay something as serious as this, I am just glad that nothing really happened and that we are playing political games instead of having to deal with 300 dead. Napolitano should still be fired, and Obama should make sure to have all facts before addressing the nation, or at least say "we are looking into it" instead of auto coming out with a "isolated terrorist" caption.
At least we didn't go into a country that posed no threat to us and destroy it.

I'll take this over that any day.
 

yg17

macrumors G5
Aug 1, 2004
14,888
2,480
St. Louis, MO
Downplay? Bush waited about a week before responding after Richard Reed, the shoebomber, tried his attack. Afterwards, he had Reed tried in criminal court, not some military tribunal.

Obama, while in Hawaii, obtained information and responded in half the time. You want him to have all the facts, but he downplayed this somehow? What?

Napolitana said that once the attempted attack occured, the system worked in notifying other planes and implementing enhanced security protocols.

She also said that security failed in allowing this guy on the plane in the first place, but again, don't forget that happened in Europe. Europe, the last time I checked, is not under the US' control.
See, I'm not entirely sure where Napolitano screwed up and should be fired either. If anything, it sounds like the CIA and FBI screwed up, neither of which fall under DHS.
 

nbs2

macrumors 68030
Mar 31, 2004
2,713
485
A geographical oddity
Meh. It's something people have opinions on. Anything that people have opinions on is a viable campaign issue. Add it that the target appeared to be DTW (what exactly is left in MI to attack - are they going to take out the Silverdome?) and of course it will become a campaign issue in MI.

Is it enough of an issue to place all your hopes and dreams on? No. Is it enough to place all your fundraising hopes on? No. Once we move on to a new story, people will move on and it won't get used for fundraising anymore.

Had people died, I might be a little more concerned. But, in this case, meh.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
Downplay? Bush waited about a week before responding after Richard Reed, the shoebomber, tried his attack. Afterwards, he had Reed tried in criminal court, not some military tribunal.

Obama, while in Hawaii, obtained information and responded in half the time. You want him to have all the facts, but he downplayed this somehow? What?

Napolitana said that once the attempted attack occured, the system worked in notifying other planes and implementing enhanced security protocols.

She also said that security failed in allowing this guy on the plane in the first place, but again, don't forget that happened in Europe. Europe, the last time I checked, is not under the US' control.
If you rely on one of the worst presidents in US history to make the current president look good hes not going to fair well over the next 4 years or in history the history books.

Napolitano botched it big time and then made another comment to try saving face, game over. I have yet to see a Democrat try to defend what she said after the attack.

Also I said I wanted Obama to have all of the facts or say "we are looking into it" instead of announcing something that downplays the issue as an isolated attack when we didn't know at the time.

My guess is he has better information that you do. If you have any information about this being something more than that, maybe you should provide it to the authorities.
We already have information made public that this guy was in contact with two members of al qaeda if not more, Obama announced this himself later on.

At least we didn't go into a country that posed no threat to us and destroy it.

I'll take this over that any day.
Again, we know what not to do, going over that bar shouldn't be an indicator of success. Thats not an American way of dealing with things.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
See, I'm not entirely sure where Napolitano screwed up and should be fired either. If anything, it sounds like the CIA and FBI screwed up, neither of which fall under DHS.
This isn't the first time shes botched up, 9/11 terrorists from Canada was the first one, now the system works great after a bomb nearly takes out 300 people on a plane.

"The system worked" were the words straight from her mouth.

and then "Our system did not work in this instance" a little bit later (surely after being raked over the coals).


Lets just be glad this wasn't another "man-made disaster" whatever that means.
 

mcrain

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Feb 8, 2002
1,768
11
Illinois
Napolitano botched it big time and then made another comment to try saving face, game over. I have yet to see a Democrat try to defend what she said after the attack.

We already have information made public that this guy was in contact with two members of al qaeda if not more, Obama announced this himself later on.
Napalotano's entire quote: "Once this incident occurred, everything went according to clockwork, not only sharing throughout the air industry, but also sharing with state and local law enforcement. Products were going out on Christmas Day, they went out yesterday, and also to the industry to make sure that the traveling public remains safe. I would leave you with that message. The traveling public is safe. We have instituted some additional screening and security measures, in light of this incident, but, again, everyone reacted as they should. The system, once the incident occurred, the system worked."

She was talking about the reaction. She didn't say the system worked when the security screeners in Europe let that guy on the plane. She said that the attempt was stopped, and once it was identified, everything they have in place to keep one event from turning into 20 happened as it was supposed to.

Ok, an individual who did one thing was in contact with other people who wanted that one thing to occur... That's still an isolated event with multiple conspiritors.
 

mcrain

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Feb 8, 2002
1,768
11
Illinois
This isn't the first time shes botched up, 9/11 terrorists from Canada was the first one
What do you mean by this? Are you insinuating that Napolitano is somehow responsible for the 9/11 terrorists coming into the US from Canada?
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
19
Chicago, Illinois
Napalotano's entire quote: "Once this incident occurred, everything went according to clockwork, not only sharing throughout the air industry, but also sharing with state and local law enforcement. Products were going out on Christmas Day, they went out yesterday, and also to the industry to make sure that the traveling public remains safe. I would leave you with that message. The traveling public is safe. We have instituted some additional screening and security measures, in light of this incident, but, again, everyone reacted as they should. The system, once the incident occurred, the system worked."

She was talking about the reaction. She didn't say the system worked when the security screeners in Europe let that guy on the plane. She said that the attempt was stopped, and once it was identified, everything they have in place to keep one event from turning into 20 happened as it was supposed to.

Ok, an individual who did one thing was in contact with other people who wanted that one thing to occur... That's still an isolated event with multiple conspiritors.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good smear.
 

yg17

macrumors G5
Aug 1, 2004
14,888
2,480
St. Louis, MO
This isn't the first time shes botched up, 9/11 terrorists from Canada was the first one, now the system works great after a bomb nearly takes out 300 people on a plane.
Huh? What do 9/11 terrorists have to do with Napolitano?

"The system worked" were the words straight from her mouth.

and then "Our system did not work in this instance" a little bit later (surely after being raked over the coals).
You took her quote out of context. She said the notification system, to notify other airports and currently airborne planes to take extra precaution. That system did work. This has been explained a million times in PRSI.

Lets just be glad this wasn't another "man-made disaster" whatever that means.
Man made disaster. Terrorist attack. Who cares what it's called? It's such a silly argument.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
Napalotano's entire quote: "Once this incident occurred, everything went according to clockwork, not only sharing throughout the air industry, but also sharing with state and local law enforcement. Products were going out on Christmas Day, they went out yesterday, and also to the industry to make sure that the traveling public remains safe. I would leave you with that message. The traveling public is safe. We have instituted some additional screening and security measures, in light of this incident, but, again, everyone reacted as they should. The system, once the incident occurred, the system worked."
What system? Having a Dutchman subdue a terrorist after he tries to put a plane into the ground with 300 people? Maybe we should enlist the dutch to fly on every plane. Direct quote:

"What we are focused on is making sure the air environment remains safe, people are confident when they travel, and one thing I want to point out here is the system worked, everyone played an important role here, the passengers and crew of the flight took appropriate action."

She was talking about the reaction. She didn't say the system worked when the security screeners in Europe let that guy on the plane. She said that the attempt was stopped, and once it was identified, everything they have in place to keep one event from turning into 20 happened as it was supposed to.
It was stopped by a ****ing vacationer on a plane, thats not a system.

Ok, an individual who did one thing was in contact with other people who wanted that one thing to occur... That's still an isolated event with multiple conspiritors.
So if the US sends a military man over to the UK with a bomb its an isolated American terrorist? Obama has already admitted that it wasn't an isolated terrorist. It was an isolated event, so was 9/11 if you look at the broader picture.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
Huh? What do 9/11 terrorists have to do with Napolitano?
The first botch up she had was in an interview about our borders in which she said the terrorist crossed from Canada, Canada wasn't too happy to say the least.


You took her quote out of context. She said the notification system, to notify other airports and currently airborne planes to take extra precaution. That system did work. This has been explained a million times in PRSI.
She said nothing of the sort, she said "the system worked", not "the notification system worked". Its great that they can report to other airports that a bomb went off and killed 300 people after it really happened, I don't really consider that a system at all though. They can just tune into any major news channel and find that out.


Man made disaster. Terrorist attack. Who cares what it's called? It's such a silly argument.
Its a political move.
 

mcrain

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Feb 8, 2002
1,768
11
Illinois
Direct quote:

"What we are focused on is making sure the air environment remains safe, people are confident when they travel, and one thing I want to point out here is the system worked, everyone played an important role here, the passengers and crew of the flight took appropriate action."

So if the US sends a military man over to the UK with a bomb its an isolated American terrorist? Obama has already admitted that it wasn't an isolated terrorist. It was an isolated event, so was 9/11 if you look at the broader picture.
You are mixing quotes, and you're mixing issues. The first quote in which she said the system worked is quoted above. She was talking about the system's response to the incident. She's attempted to explain that quote to the less intelligent now for a couple of weeks. The system (air control) worked after the incident. Other planes were notified. Increased security implemented. That all worked. When the republicans who can't read or understand nuance decided to attack her on a snippet of her quote, she explained herself more fully. She's repeatedly said the system worked in response to the incident. On top of that, she acknowledged the crew of the plane did what it was supposed to do. Finally, the flying public did its part too in subduing this guy. She's also acknowledged that there were security lapses that allowed the guy on the plane, and the President has acknowledged that there are problems with the no-fly and watch lists.

It took the 9/11 commission to get the Bush administration to do anything to increase security, and it took them years to do what they did.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
You are mixing quotes, and you're mixing issues. The first quote in which she said the system worked is quoted above. She was talking about the system's response to the incident. She's attempted to explain that quote to the less intelligent now for a couple of weeks. The system (air control) worked after the incident. Other planes were notified. Increased security implemented. That all worked. When the republicans who can't read or understand nuance decided to attack her on a snippet of her quote, she explained herself more fully. She's repeatedly said the system worked in response to the incident. On top of that, she acknowledged the crew of the plane did what it was supposed to do. Finally, the flying public did its part too in subduing this guy. She's also acknowledged that there were security lapses that allowed the guy on the plane, and the President has acknowledged that there are problems with the no-fly and watch lists.

It took the 9/11 commission to get the Bush administration to do anything to increase security, and it took them years to do what they did.
Our NHS systems work when a bomb blows up a plane on an airport and we can relay the information to other airports. Fantastic. I feel safer already.