Holy Bonuses Batman!!!!!!!!


jnpy!$4g3cwk

macrumors 65816
Feb 11, 2010
1,100
1,293
Rot in banking culture

Banking is a tad more difficult than burger flipping
For some definition of "banking" and some definition of "difficult":

Money laundering, market rigging, tax dodging, selling faulty financial products, trampling homeowner rights and rampant risk-taking — these are some of the sins that big banks have committed in recent years.

Now, some government authorities are publicly questioning whether such misdeeds are not just the work of a few bad actors, but rather a flaw that runs through the fabric of the banking industry.

After years of saying little about the behavior of bankers, even as one scandal followed another, regulators are starting to ask: Is there something rotten in bank culture?

It is a concern recently voiced by William C. Dudley, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, the institution that has more day-to-day contact with Wall Street than any other arm of the government.

“There is evidence of deep-seated cultural and ethical failures at many large financial institutions,” Mr. Dudley said in a speech that sent a chill through the financial industry last year.
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/questions-are-asked-of-rot-in-banking-culture/?_php=true&_type=blogs&action=click&module=Search&region=searchResults%230&version=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fquery.nytimes.com%2Fsearch%2Fsitesearch%2F%3Faction%3Dclick%26region%3DMasthead%26pgtype%3DHomepage%26module%3DSearchSubmit%26contentCollection%3DHomepage%26t%3Dqry97%23%2Fbanking%2Bethics%2Fsince1851%2Fallresults%2F1%2Fallauthors%2Fnewest%2F&_r=0
 

ugahairydawgs

macrumors 68030
Jun 10, 2010
2,666
1,279
Many teachers receive minimum wage or close to it. And they have degrees. It's not just about flipping burgers.
Many teachers may be woefully under-paid, but to say they are making minimum wage is a huge over exaggeration. Even on the low end full time teachers don't even sniff $7.25/hour.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors 604
Original poster
Oct 27, 2009
7,433
8,607
Where are these teachers who make minimum wage? The national average for starting teacher salaries is $36,141. Certainly not a great wage but far from minimum wage.


http://www.nea.org/home/2012-2013-average-starting-teacher-salary.html
Many teachers may be woefully under-paid, but to say they are making minimum wage is a huge over exaggeration. Even on the low end full time teachers don't even sniff $7.25/hour.
I agree, I mistakenly exaggerated. I didn't realize minimum wage comes out to only about $15k annual(OUCH).

But the average salary sucks for a teacher. They make too much to recieve any assistance with none or one kid. The same goes for affordable housing. But still struggle with too little.

Then you have Welfare recipients recieving more than what they make .... http://benswann.com/welfare-recipients-in-new-york-can-now-earn-more-than-teachers/
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,409
I agree, I mistakenly exaggerated. I didn't realize minimum wage comes out to only about $15k annual(OUCH).

But the average salary sucks for a teacher. They make too much to recieve any assistance with none or one kid. The same goes for affordable housing. But still struggle with too little.

Then you have Welfare recipients recieving more than what they make .... http://benswann.com/welfare-recipients-in-new-york-can-now-earn-more-than-teachers/

That is complete ********. That CATO study was thoroughly debunked in this forum already.

Here's a good explanation why:

http://scientopia.org/blogs/authority/2013/08/21/no-cato-welfare-doesnt-pay-more-than-minimum-wage/
 

vrDrew

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2010
1,317
11,838
Midlife, Midwest
This is the sort of statistic that, while attempting to shock, really falls apart on closer examination. How so:

Lets start by looking at the numbers of workers in involved: Approximately 165 thousand financial workers in New York. And about one million full-time (more on that later) minimum wage workers.

Do I find it shocking that people in a notoriously high-wage occupation earn a multiple of the absolute lowest wage? Not at all. The NY Financial Sectr workforce is about one seventh the size of the Minimum Wage Full Time sector.

Lets move on to the next thing: Who are these people who are working full-time for minimum wage? The fact that there are "only" a million of them tells me its not a particularly big segment of the population.

And lastly, in the financial sector the Bonus is different than it is at most companies - where a "bonus" is a few extra thousand tacked on if the company does really well - or simply a crisp $50 tucked in an envelope at Christmas.

At big banks and securities companies, the bonus is the major part of the compensation. Traders with a base salary of "only" $300,000 receive bonus (based on trading profits) sometimes in the millions.

There is no doubt in my mind that income inequality is a problem in this country; and that moreover some in the financial sector seem seriously overpaid.

But the numbers in this story don't hold up to close examination, at least when it comes to "shock factor."
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,747
4,885
The financial sector has no shortage of people that make almost nothing as well.

Plenty of experienced traders living from paycheck to paycheck. The thing with finance though is commissions and bonuses are typically based on services sold.

In the case of Wall Street, we are talking about massive deals with huge dollar amounts so that skews the numbers dramatically. Especially when are talking investment banking where numbers can be in billions.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
The problem that I got from this wasn't the bonuses, or not really the bonuses, but the other statistic. Somebody said roughly 1 million people are on minimum wage full time.

They only made that much over the year?
 

anonymouslurker

macrumors regular
May 16, 2012
180
614
The problem that I got from this wasn't the bonuses, or not really the bonuses, but the other statistic. Somebody said roughly 1 million people are on minimum wage full time.

They only made that much over the year?
16 billion made, among 1 million people, equals 16 thousand for the year.

As noted earlier in the thread, minimum wage works out to about 15k a year, so the numbers make sense.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
16 billion made, among 1 million people, equals 16 thousand for the year.

As noted earlier in the thread, minimum wage works out to about 15k a year, so the numbers make sense.
Yes, the number makes sense based on current minimum wage.

The current minimum wage is ridiculously low, though.
 

samiwas

macrumors 68000
Aug 26, 2006
1,575
3,518
Atlanta, GA
Crazy…financial workers in NYC alone earned bonuses equal to $85 for every person in the USA.

And if the 165,000 is correct for the number of financial workers, the average bonus is about what a full-time minimum wage worker would make in 11 years.
 

samiwas

macrumors 68000
Aug 26, 2006
1,575
3,518
Atlanta, GA
Don't you know that playing "Shuffle Money" is the most important activity EVAR??? ;)
No, being an Apple exec is. :D Remember a while back when they each got a bonus at the time equivalent to what a full time minimum wage worker would make in about 4,000 years? That's the dream. Maybe? I dunno.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
2,329
10,254
Scotland
Banking is a tad more difficult than burger flipping
Is it? :eek: Have you flipped burgers day-in, day-out for a living rather than a temporary job? I made more than 100,000 doughnuts in a minimum-wage job (Dunkin's) as I worked through college, and I am very glad that I have other options open to me. What would you rather do - flip burgers or shift numbers?

In any case, please explian something to me: Since many financial institutions have gone under, there should be a massive glut of experienced, talented financial sector workers. Why hasn't that driven wages in banking down? Supposedly a glut of trained talent is why my salary as a public-sector academic researcher has not kept up with inflation for the past 5 years. :mad:

Bankers are at serious risk of the whole society turning against them....
 

Ugg

macrumors 68000
Apr 7, 2003
1,985
15
Penryn
Thank you for pointing this out.

US teachers are heavily underpaid compared to other first world countries, but they aren't making minimum wage. Only 5% of the hourly workforce does IIRC.
Why is that even relevant? Personally. I'd like to see abreakdown of hourly wages. If only 5% make minimum but 70% make less than $10 an hr, then your argument is pointless. Minimum or $10 + even can't provide a person with a decent living.
 

ElectronGuru

macrumors 65816
Sep 5, 2013
1,492
361
Oregon, USA
No, being an Apple exec is. :D Remember a while back when they each got a bonus at the time equivalent to what a full time minimum wage worker would make in about 4,000 years?
You don't often see time based comparisons, makes for a good perspective. Reminds me of the movie In Time.
 

samiwas

macrumors 68000
Aug 26, 2006
1,575
3,518
Atlanta, GA
Why is that even relevant? Personally. I'd like to see abreakdown of hourly wages. If only 5% make minimum but 70% make less than $10 an hr, then your argument is pointless. Minimum or $10 + even can't provide a person with a decent living.
Indeed. Even $15 an hour is only $31,200 a year if you work 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. $31,200 is barely a decent wage, and certainly only for a single person. Yet, $15 an hour is regarded as a ridiculous wage for much of the work out there. About 53% of the country makes less than that.

We would have to make some serious life changes to even live on $50k a year ($24/hour), and that's more than 75% of the country.