Homeless Man Beaten to Death by Fullerton Police

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Merkava_4, Aug 5, 2011.

  1. Merkava_4, Aug 5, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  2. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #2
    *waits for the "he shouldn't have resisted crowd to get here*

    Wow.

    Taze so any weapons are out of hands, use the SIX officers present to restrain the man and handcuff, is it really that hard? They had to physically harm a man (6 to 1) to the point where he was comatose?

    I hope the surveillance video gets FOIA'd so we can see what really happened.
     
  3. CaoCao macrumors 6502a

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  4. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #4
    With the public outrage behind this and witnesses to say they beat him with flashlights and used a taser excessively, I don't think a jury will have a hard time being swayed of their guiltiness.
     
  5. StruckANerve macrumors 6502

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    #5
    There is footage from a bystander that has audio of him screaming for help from his father as they repeatedly taze him. It's pretty brutal. The LEO's should be in prison for 1st degree murder but as of now they are on paid "vacation". The photo of the aftermath is soul crushing.
     
  6. Apple OC macrumors 68040

    Apple OC

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    #6
    back in the day I believe officers were trained to disarm suspects one on one (without killing them) ... today many seem to be cowardly thugs who commit this type of murderous behavior all too often.

    brings back memories of the Vancouver RCMP officers who Murdered that poor guy at the airport.
     
  7. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #7
    Just going to point out that it not 1st degree murder. It could be murder but it is not 1st degree.

    What I hate about stories like these true or not is that it makes all police look bad and lets face facts. A vast majority of cops are good and do their thankless job very well. You just have some bad Apples that ruin it for all of them.

    The police in this case do need to get some stuff out in the media because todays media will just fill in the gaps and try to make it as bad as possible for ratings.
     
  8. WillEH macrumors 6502a

    WillEH

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    #8
    Agreed that disgusting incidents like this do make the police look bad. We only ever see the bad things happening by a small percentage of bad police officers. Never the brave things they do. Of course it can be even worse in American with gun crime. But I hope that the officers at least stand trial for what they did to this man. A little over the line I'd say..
     
  9. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #9
    Six officers responding to a complaint that someone MIGHT be breaking into cars in a parking lot. SIX officers...for a crime that hasn't even happened yet. Overkill much?

    I agree with the man's father and a few of the citizens there. The Chief needs to step down. As the saying goes, "A fish stinks from the head down."
     
  10. macquariumguy macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    And why couldn't it be 1st? If they killed him while committing a felony crime, wouldn't that qualify?
     
  11. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #11
    what what felony crime were they committing? I do not see one that could be elevated to 1st degree murder.
    Chances are this will be at most Voluntary manslaughter.
     
  12. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #12
    Why place an officer at risk by requiring that they fight with suspects one-on-one? It's not supposed to be a duel.

    I have only read the OP, so I can only say that there is nowhere near enough information to make a judgment on this incident based on that article. When a suspect is uncooperative, officers must fear the worst - high on drugs, concealed weapons, fleeing a crime scene etc. In this case the safety of the police comes first.

    What was the state of the victim's health? How did the victim resist? What exactly did the police do to try and apprehend/restrain him? Did their behavior deviate from standard procedure, and if so how?

    With that being said, a panicking suspect is not necessarily guilty of anything, and any use of force must be undertaken as professionally as possible to protect all parties. If the officers in question were excessive in their use of force, the death of the victim is completely their responsiblity and they should be treated accordingly.

    One thing I can say from reading the OP is that the police department failed miserably in terms of communicating with the city and the public. In these cases the police chief needs to be very proactive, both in investigating the incident and keeping the public informed. He has failed to do that, so that we are all still in the dark about what happened. Cell-phone videos and hearsay only tell one side of the story.
     
  13. StruckANerve, Aug 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2011

    StruckANerve macrumors 6502

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    #13
  14. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #14
    Looks like they tazed him in the face, in addition to blunt force trauma to the head. My gut reaction is that the police are to blame, but due process must be followed as always.

    It's a terrible tragedy for the victim either way.
     
  15. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #15
    The "a few bad apples" excuse is wearing a tad thin.
     
  16. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #16
    It certainly looks like an obvious case of excessive force to me - but it would be wrong and unfair to judge the case based on one photo.

    Police brutality is routinely sensationalized. That is a fact. With that being said, "a few bad apples" can only sneak into the equation if the system fails at multiple levels when it comes to recruitment and training. Unfortunately, the demand for good police officers often outstrips the supply, and we end up with the "bad apples". Even so, there is no excuse for a lack of professionalism on the part of police officers. This incident graphically illustrates the cost of mistakes - either in recruiting, training, leadership or individual discipline. They should never be tolerated.
     
  17. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #17
    There is nothing abuot this story that makes it anything but 1st degree murder, unless you consider wearing a uniform and a badge a defense to every crime.

    Absolutely.

    Felony battery? Shouldn't it be a felony for an officer of the law to exceed his/her authority?

    When the vast, vast majority of regular people realize that the super rich are screwing them over and decide to revolt, it will be these guys in uniform "upholding" the law that make up the army of the wealthy.
     
  18. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #18
    Find me a case where someone beats the crap out of someone with felony battery that gets up to 1st degree, This battery or assault could not of been pre planned and would have to one that came from "heat of the moment"

    I see the out rage but I do not see 1st degree murder in this. Other than the out rage and screaming legally it is not 1st degree. This is manslaughter.
     
  19. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #19
    Every case of a beating that results in death where the state is seeking the death penalty is exactly what I was referring to. It's called lesser included offence. Find me a single case of first degree murder where the person was beat to death, where the court said it couldn't be first degree murder because it was a beating.

    You won't find any cases where the 1st degree designation is removed because it's "only" a felony battery that resulted in the death.

    This is easily murder. (edit) A highly trained, armed person, charged with upholding the law, exceeds his authority and chooses to use lethal force as he beats an unarmed man until he looks like hamburger... all while surrounded by other roided out armed guys who also have non-lethal weapons...
     
  20. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #20
    I am not arguing that it is not murder. I just do not see it being 1st degree. I see it mostly likely being Manslaughter at best.
     
  21. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #21
    I admit I'm a novice when it comes to legal matters, but doesn't first degree murder require proof of a premeditated or planned intent to kill? I don't see how that could be applied to this situation without evidence that they planned to beat the victim to death.

    I would think that the charge is more likely to be either second degree murder or voluntary manslaughter.
     
  22. StruckANerve macrumors 6502

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    #22
    Whatever the sentence ends up being it will be too good for those pigs. They should be clubbed and electrocuted to death by homeless people.
     
  23. parapup macrumors 65816

    parapup

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    #23
    Why so much insanity? I hate the world when I read such horrible dastardly things. On the positive side, at least there is some activism left to counter evil. But how come no one called 911 to dispatch another set of hopefully saner cops to control the ones that were allegedly committing this heinous crime?

    There goes my afternoon :(
     
  24. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #24
    Police brutality is routinely swept under the carpet. That is also a fact (well at least as much as yours is a "fact"). It's only because on occasion people have video or photographic evidence that these cases come to light at all.In the UK over the last say forty years say
    how many deaths in police custody and how many police have been held accountable? None that's how many.I'm actually tired of talking about this,of course peoples experience in small town Britain is different but believe me police brutality is an everyday fact of life in many disadvantaged areas of the UK's cities.(I'm talking about the UK because I have the most experience there but I've also had experience in other countries it's pretty much the same all over)
     
  25. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #25
    Again, this is 1st degree because when they chose to hit the guy in the face with a stick, it was done with full intent to cause grievous bodily harm.

    Here is a pretty basic analysis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

    (edit) Go to your local courthouse and ask the public defender and regular defense attorneys about the stuff they have seen. What's worse is the stuff the states attorneys have seen.

    Yes, the police brag about things like breaking a 4 D-cell flashlight in half on a suspect. Laughing about breaking their hand on a meth-head's face...
     

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