House Appropriations Cmte Votes To Cancel 2001 AUMF, Removing Trumps Ability To Wage War

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by RootBeerMan, Jun 29, 2017.

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  1. RootBeerMan macrumors 6502

    RootBeerMan

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    #1
    About time someone decided to cancel the damned AUMF. It was always too broad and insured never ending ending war powers in the hands of the president. Hopefully the amendment will make it through the process and put war powers back in the hands of the Congress, where it belongs. If a president wants to wage war he should go before Congress and ask for a declaration of war, as the Constitution lays out.

    http://thehill.com/policy/defense/3...anel-approves-language-revoking-war-authority

     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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    #2
    freaking LOVE IT, it's about time. the POTUS should have NEVER had that power to begin with.
     
  3. mrkramer macrumors 603

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    Great, but I doubt it will make it through the Senate and House with veto proof majorities in both.
     
  4. Huntn macrumors G5

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    #4
    With Trump in charge..... maybe. ;)
     
  5. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Positive first step. Obviously, trump's behavior isn't helping to instill confidence.
     
  6. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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    THE last clown instilled confidence? that is one heavy set of partisan glasses there, he bombed more than Bush.
     
  7. Huntn macrumors G5

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    Obama did not invade, he had to deal with the mess Dubya started and left behind. I think you are mostly alone in this forum, in the U.S. and world wide with your typically myopic assertion.
     
  8. RootBeerMan thread starter macrumors 6502

    RootBeerMan

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    This, too. It's far too much power to vest in one persons hands, especially if that person is unstable (like the current president). All of them should have to go before the Congress for permission to wage war. With the passage of the 2001 AUMF the Congress abrogated their responsibilities under the Constitution, something they should not have done and, it can be argued that they had no power to do.
     
  9. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    #9
    Source?
     
  10. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    Libya & Syria................all on Obama
    --- Post Merged, Jun 29, 2017 ---
    https://www.thebureauinvestigates.c...r-in-numbers-ten-times-more-strikes-than-bush
    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/...estled-with-protecting-nation-and-troops.html
     
  11. Huntn macrumors G5

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  12. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

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    Syria maybe, but Libya... not even close... hell not even the same continent.
     
  13. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    #13
    As I suspected, you're conflating "bombs" with strikes by Predator drones. I haven't found the data, but I suspect that overall use of bombs between the Bush and Obama administrations might be close.

    Remember, the operational tempos changed from 2007 to 2009, and the U.S. shifted from using aircraft like the B-52 to B-1s and Predators.

    The racetracks over Mazar-i-Sharif and Tora Bora included dozens of coalition aircraft, including B-52s that dropped hundreds of tons of ordinance almost at once. A C-130 dropped the first BLU-82 on the heads of Taliban fighters during that battle.

    Obama expanded the war on terror, by ordering operations in Libya and Syria, but the shift in combat likely lowered the total number of bombs, and the total number of strikes.

    I could be wrong, but I'd like to see a source that totals out the number of bombs and missiles used during each presidential administration. Not just the number of Predator sorties.


    Hmmm... Not my favorite source, but Alternet believes that Obama dropped more bombs than Bush.

     
  14. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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    Yeah. Obama bombing Libya & Syria while arming terrorist had nothing to do with it :rolleyes:
     
  15. Huntn macrumors G5

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    #15
    ISIS, insurgency in the region, yep. I don't think a different continent has much to do with it as far as Lybia because it's a predominantly Muslim country in the same region.
     
  16. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    Cart-horse.

    By collapsing the regime in Iraq and fumbling the invasion, the Bush administration created an environment for a rush of foreign fighters and Al Qaeda's new offshoots.

    Later, the Bush administration sat on their hands when world food prices spiked in 2007-2008 leading to the conditions that launched the Arab Spring in Tunisia.

    By the time Obama came in to the White House, most of the conditions were set.
     
  17. Huntn macrumors G5

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    Oh, so people who resist a dictator are terrorists, understood. I'll raise your terrorist with some Israel freedom fighters.
     
  18. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

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    #18
    I think you need a map... Libya is not in the same region as Syria.
    North Africa was relatively stable until the Arab Spring which started in Tunisia (North Africa, not ME).
    It later spread to the ME, but to attribute it to "Dubya" is patently false.
    It was started in Tunisia as an uprising against their own government and spread to Egypt and Algeria.
    The ME Arab Spring was later and again... not really based on U.S. involvement.
     
  19. Huntn macrumors G5

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    So the populaces of these countries are isolated from one another, don't pay attention what's happening in other predominantly Muslim countries along the South and Eastern side of the Mediterranean Sea? Libya heated up and the U.S. had to make a decision about staying out or supporting rebels. Partially you'd have to suppose what would of happened if the U.S. had stayed out of it, and speculate on the outcome. We were involved but did not deploy ground troops there.

    However, I questioned the outcome of helping in Libya without really understanding the end result. But it's not enough for me to characterize Obama as a clown, as one of our esteemed members did, especially not compared to the current Clown in Chief. ;)

    I will concede, the sooner we let the locals and regional powers take care of their own business, the better. I'm fatigued with never ending war. I have a son in the USAF who is constantly deploying. I know it's not good for our military to be fighting other people's wars for your entire professional military life.
     
  20. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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  21. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

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    Again... the whole thing started in Tunisia when the citizens were protesting their own government (link, link), not what ever the hell was going on in the ME. It was unrelated to hostilities in Syria and Iraq.
    Egyptians rose up against Mubarak's government (link).
    Libya was later, and again, not related to the ME hostilities.

    We should have stayed the **** out of all of it. Those were all internal matters that we had no business getting involved in.
     
  22. RootBeerMan thread starter macrumors 6502

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  23. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    There would seem with Trump the potential for an algorithmic scale of escalation.

    Of course maybe he's just talking trash. It's hard to tell. It's a reason to withdraw the power.
     
  24. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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    HE negotiated a cease fire in Syria, so that IMHO is a good start.
     
  25. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    I hope any ceasefire in Syria holds but it's way late for any of them to have been called good starts. The country is rubble and generations have been sent fleeing into the disapora without certainty of ever getting back again, or of being fully accepted wherever they've ended up. Their descent into civil war I will grant you was not initiated by Donald Trump.

    As for Trump, everything he does that is even remotely related to a Russian interest is questionable on its face until or unless he explains his reluctance to release tax returns, his encouragement of Russian acquisition of Clinton emails during the campaign, etc., etc. Of course he should take some credit if a ceasefire restores a lasting peace in Syria. That it may be at the expense of the freedoms of the Syrian population who are not Alewite like Assad, that is another matter.
     

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