How can African Americans be so anti-Gay rights?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by DoNoHarm, Nov 6, 2008.

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  1. DoNoHarm macrumors 65816

    DoNoHarm

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    #1
    I mean seriously, you can't not see the lines of people waiting to be wed at city hall and not be reminded of the civil rights movement!

    The NAACP, which supports the rights of gays to marry, clearly needs to do some more work within their own house on this one....
     
  2. Cleverboy macrumors 65816

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    I'm sorry, but this seems like a strange and silly argument. People who have been convinced that homosexuality is an arbitrary and deviant decision people consciously make do not perceive civil "rights" as having anything to do with homosexuality. It doesn't matter if they're black, white, red or green. Complicate that with the whole "marriage" vs "civil union" argument made by our new President-elect, and suddenly you have a gray area where conservatives get the result they want through a minefield of confusion.

    When it comes to religious African-Americans, I'm frankly surprised there aren't more blacks in the conservative ranks. I think its more evidence of the GOP being out-of-touch than anything else. I remember once stopping myself from arguing the case for Barack Obama to relatives down south... a woman's right to choose and gay marriage (under the label "civil union") aren't really the "draws" to the Democratic party in the black communities I know. It's things like equal pay for equal work (affirmative action, losing its appeal) and government programs (healthcare, social security).

    Thinking about gay rights as purely a "civil rights" issue isn't a leap certain religious people (or those considering themselves so) will make, regardless. They'd need to first think of gays as "a people" separate, and biologically distinct from heterosexuals. Many church-going blacks feel they're losing their black men (a prime resource) to "homosexuality", violence and disease. Anything that seems to promote a gay lifestyle is then automatically a candidate for condemnation.

    That's how I've observed the situation anyway.

    ~ CB
     
  3. Sayhey macrumors 68000

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    You could ask the same question about any community in the country. Support of gay marriage is not a majority opinion among any ethnic group. Having said that, it is important to note that the Prop. 8 backers made a special effort through the use of lying robocalls and mailers to persuade black voters to support the initiative and little effort was made from the other side to fight this campaign in the black communities of California. In particular, robocalls and mailers used the voice and words of Barack Obama saying he did not support gay marriage while conveniently leaving out the fact that Obama was on recorded opposing the proposition. That along with lies about teaching children all about gay marriage frightened too many.

    It's a horrible setback for human rights, but it doesn't help to blame it on any one community. In fact it hurts the effort for equality to do so.
     
  4. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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  5. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    You think that we shouldn't blame the people who actually VOTED for Prop8, and should place more of the blame on the campaign that tried to persuade people? Look, there's enough incompetency to throw around, but you don't just let the actual voters (who have to make up their own mind) off the hook that easily.
     
  6. freeny macrumors 68020

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    for the same reason some Jews are anti black. Biggotry is not monopolized by any one group.

    Put twelve people in a room, they may all not find someone to love, but they will all certainly find someone to hate.
     
  7. Cleverboy macrumors 65816

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  8. jplan2008 macrumors regular

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    You didn't read the Diary BV linked, then. It didn't talk about the campaign FOR Prop 8, it talked about the campaign against it -- that the campaign specifically said not to talk about it as a civil rights issue. The Diary is very long, but I'd recommend reading the beginning at least.
     
  9. freeny macrumors 68020

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    Most people see homosexuality as a choice and hence, not something protected under the constitution.
    So to them, being gay is similar too something one would choose like, religion...

    Oh, wait...

    Now "gay marriage" IS a choice just like any other marriage, and I assume it is not really "marriage" that is in debate here but "equal rights".

    Personally I think THAT should be the debate and not marriage.

    The "marriage" thing scares the crap out of those of the religious choice because it goes against their rule book. That will NEVER change.

    I am all for equal rights AND gay marriage, but I personally think the approach is flawed...
     
  10. iGary Guest

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    No, most people are disgusted by it.
     
  11. iGary Guest

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    Wasn't meant to be funny. LOL
     
  12. freeny macrumors 68020

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    Yes, but that is not protected under the constitution.

    you need to be specific as to what you are lol'ing at so as not to create confusion...
     
  13. iGary Guest

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    The problem is most people can only think about the sexual aspect of it.

    I was LOL-ing his LMFAO.
     
  14. rhett7660 macrumors G4

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    #15
    I couldn't agree more. I see this in a lot of older people. Say the baby boomer generation. I am not saying all.

    Hence the reason I asked this in the other thread about prop 8. Do you feel the large voter turnout hurt prop 8?
     
  15. iGary Guest

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    #16
    Well my family and I talked about it one time.

    One of my sisters said "I try not to think about you with another man," to which I responded "I definitely don't think about any of you having sex with anyone, what's your fascination with me?"
     
  16. freeny macrumors 68020

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    #17
    Yes, when you say "marriage", sex/family comes to mind.
    What I am saying is that a "Equal rights" approach and not a "marriage" approach may be more fruitful... (no pun intended)
     
  17. robanga macrumors 68000

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    #18
    Maybe just maybe its because being gay is thought of as not a " class " or even a " group " but actually a behavior or something akin to a choice. :eek:

    To people of this opinion, it sounds the same as " defending the rights of people who decide to drive 100 mph on the interstate" Hey I may like to drive fast but I am not sure my behavior should be recognized as a protected segment of society or even recognized by the state at all.

    ...I'm guessing that is it.

    This endless talk on multiple forums about the issue hinges on this one argument. Sure there are plenty of people that believe it is sin and against their spiritual beliefs but beyond that the wider question hinges on more of what is described above.

    ...I'm thinkin
     
  18. DoNoHarm thread starter macrumors 65816

    DoNoHarm

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    #19
    to all those who think being gay is a choice

    Seriously? Being gay is a choice? If it's a choice for gays it must be a choice for heterosexual people too. Then tell me, all of you who think being gay is a choice, how much money could I give you to make you "choose" to have sex with someone of your own gender? How much money would it cost? Would you have sex with someone else for $1,000,000? $1,000,000,000?

    I personally wouldn't do it for all the money in the world (not that there's anything wrong with that). Maybe all of you say it's a choice for gays because for you because it really is.... That would make you bi-sexual.

    I'm surprised that, being bisexual, you are not more pro-gay rights!
     
  19. DoNoHarm thread starter macrumors 65816

    DoNoHarm

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  20. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #21

    Absolutely. To me, this thread distastefully smacks of racist scapegoating with little or no evidence for its hypothesis. And if serious people are raising serious questions about the campaign's efficacy, then who am I to argue? Because, after all, that is precisely what a campaign is for; to persuade, educate and to motivate. They failed.

    More advice from Andrew Sullivan:

    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/11/a-real-threat-t.html
     
  21. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #22
    Actually, I've decided to close this thread. It's far too close to inflammatory racist finger-pointing especially when you take the following facts into account.



    You may as well blame white men and women. Game over.
     
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