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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by dinaluvsApple, Oct 22, 2010.
What exactly are you looking for them to refute? I think they would agree with it 100%. It pissed them off.
I think you may be "misunderstanding" the motivations of the so-called Tea Party activists. The reason the GOP lost in '06 and '08 was because these types of activists thought GOP congressmen and senators were spending too much. Period. So they either did not come out to vote for GOP or voted for a different candidate.
FF to 2009. With the GOP virtually toothless in congress they witnessed a faster rate of spending in one year than in all the Clinton-Bush years combined. Thus the birth of the Tea Party activist. They are looking to take that map you posted and pare it down. A lot of the money in those maps is from "earmarks." That is one of the sleight-of-hand procedures TPA's are looking to curb.
But also a lot of the disparity in that map is also due to the fact that 50% of Americans don't pay any income taxes. Those people tend to live in poorer states, thus a skewed ratio results.
It sure is a great picture. If the reliably Democratic North East plus rust belt (Great Lake States) plus the West coast were to secede, form their own country and leave the "real America" (as Sarah Palin calls it) to the real Americans (ignorant teabaggers), they would find out in a hurry just how dirt poor they really are.
Also within six months of such a split there would be a massive brain drain from the new all red state "real America" to the new blue state country, which would leave them even poorer and more ignorant. Good luck with that, my fellow "real Americans!"
Perhaps it could be refuted if it was somewhat up to the present. Fiscal year 2004, well a lot has changed since then.
You missed the point. All those states that take all that money are largely conservative. They should practice what they preach, no? If they are so against spending, shouldn't they stop taking all the money from the richer states? Shouldn;t they live within their means? Isn't that - redistribution of wealth? OMG! Hide the children!
Earmarks are not a significant amount of spending but they are representative of what's wrong in Washington.
Considering the high proportion of Tea Party activists receiving Government handouts (Social Security, disability, unemployment, government jobs, etc.) they need to be looking in the mirror real hard.
Interesting, are there numbers associated with that?
Like to use that against my coworkers
NO! You didn't bother reading what I wrote or you are too dense to understand it. The Tea Party activists are against SPENDING. They don't care that there state might get more largess than others. They want it stopped. They want an end to the "earmarks" that cause this type of waste.
This map is from 2004. The Tea Party types voted the GOP out in 2006 and 2008 precisely because of this type of spending. THAT is my point. The Tea Party types ARE practicing what they are preaching. In the 2010 primaries they took out several sitting GOP members of congress because of their penchant to spend and replaced them with their own candidate. They don't vote GOP in a knee-jerk fashion. Their message is if you spend your term will end.
here you go
sorry for the huge picture
Really? Show me some proof where they are disproportionately taking gov't handouts. I'm betting you cannot.
1) SS is not a hand out. People who rec soc sec PAID into the system.
2) Disability and Unemployment are PAID by employers by law.
3) Gov't Jobs -- Please show me where there are lots of Tea Party members who work for the gov't. SEIU, AFSCME, are Tea Party enemy #1. I doubt too many TP people work in the gov't, but if they do when is work a handout?
You should read this.
are u going to answer my chart or just continue trolling?
Trolling? I'm giving you answers. Sorry they don't match up w/ your world view or what you've been told to believe.
Please tell me exactly what you want me to answer about your chart that I have not done already. Happy to do so, but you need to be specific.
16.5b may not seem like a lot of money to you but consider that Head Start funding for 2011 is targeted at 6.8b or that the WH's new preschool "early learning" program is proposed at 9.3b or that the U.S. gov't portion of the school lunch program is 13b.
So when you say 16.5b isn't a lot of money, it's not when you consider the entire budget. But when you break down what is spent on large individual programs 16.5b can go to a lot better uses than finding use uses for wood (actual 2009 expenditure - not making it up).
You made the statement that "a lot of the money in that map is from earmarks". Earmarks don't come close to the amount of welfare the red states get.
And everyone pays for government programs somehow. No one is exempt from all taxes. Everyone pays them in some form or another. And Disability is a government-paid program. Life-long disability is not paid for by employers. I don't know where you're getting that.
Link to back that up?
None of those states have to accept the money. They actually request it
Its an endless circle Lee. Not worth repeating it every time we come around to this side
It's just so stupid. It doesn't take much to figure this stuff out, ya know?
Much is what the U.S. is sadly lacking in.
Wow, Chupa Chupa is the one giving intelligent thought in this thread, and you people bash him.
Really? How is what he posted intelligent? Because you agree with it? And how have we bashed him? If refuting someone's claim is now considered bashing, this country is in a hell of a lot of trouble.
1) Earmarks are generally spent on programs that would not pass muster if presented openly. The total amount of earmarks is a lot of money in the sense it could go to fund useful programs or not spent at all.
2) It seems there is an assumption that since these are "red" states that every inhabitant of that state is 1) aligned with the Tea Party and/ or 2) that those requesting and accepting the largess are Tea Party people. Of course even the most "red" states have very ideologically split state houses and legislatures.
3) How many times must I write that the Tea Party people in these states receiving large sums of federal money want the spending rolled back, not for other states but for all. The Tea Party as a movement only started LAST YEAR. To date the only elections the Tea Party has been involved in are GOP primaries where they have taken out many GOP incumbents who arranged for the money in the map.
Not true. There is no national sales tax. 50% of Americans pay zero federal income tax at all. And disability is partly funded by the payroll tax.
Actually, many times states DO have to accept the money because it's tied to other necessary funding. Tea Party activists are not against ALL government spending, only WASTEFUL spending. A few Govs did try to not accept Stimulus $ but found they were virtually forced to because it was tied to other programs. TP activists are tired of being saddled with debt, and putting it on their kids. The whole idea of the "Tea Party" goes back to taxes and spending.
To the GOP members of congress and the senate who did request wasteful projects the TP went after them. Bob Bennett, Lisa Murkowski, Mike Castle, etc. Have you not heard about the TP defeating these GOP incumbents b/c of their spending?
Umm..wait- payroll tax? Who works to make the money that pays the payroll tax? And where does payroll tax go? And then where does the rest of the funding come from for disability? Rememeber, your claim was that employers pay for disability. You mentioned nothing about the feds at all. Maybe other forums you frequent allow you to tell half truths- not here.
And please tell me me where you get this wacky 50% number. If that is true, then 50% of America must be really broke.
So far, you've refused to back any of your claims with any evidence.
This CNN article says "in 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax."
According to the same article: