how did we get here?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Feb 21, 2017.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #1
    [​IMG]

    by only giving a crap about things when the "other" side did the misdeeds :(, hope my lotto numbers come in, so I can GTFO........
     
  2. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #2
    Lotto is 400 mil. I'm ghosting if I win off my $10 that I'll put in. I'm thinking a few thousand acres house in the middle, no trespassing/soliciting signs everywhere.
    That's basically how we got here though, some on the right were totally cool with all the things Bush Jr did. Some on the left were cool with all the things that Obama did. Even though both did things that were detrimental to the US.
     
  3. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #3
    Warranted a new thread when you make this comment on just about every other? ;)
     
  4. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #4
    Repetita iuvant!
     
  5. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #5
    That would be a good "entertainer" name for him!
     
  6. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  7. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #7
    Agreed. I think you have to try and call people on their hypocrisy and we all have to try harder.
     
  8. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  9. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #9
    JK:

    I think you know that's a bunch of hogwash. I'm not going to go, point by point, through a list of ludicrous false-equivalences. But, just for example, President Obama took office at a time when the economy was in free-fall and hemorrhaging half a million jobs a month. It's not totally surprising that deficits would go up under those circumstances. And its fundamentally different to slash taxes on millionaires and billionaires at a time when they are richer than ever - than spending money on unemployment benefits for people who've lost their jobs through no fault of their own.

    How did we get here? I'd recommend taking a look at an article by Conservative talk radio commentator Charles Sykes in Politico.

    Reasonable people can have differing views on any number of political topics. From taxes and spending. Foreign policy. Immigration, abortion, and gun control. We can weigh the evidence and the arguments, pass legislation and test the results in the Courts and in the real world.

    But we cannot disagree on what constitutes truth. Something either happened, or it didn't. We cannot permit our society to fall into the chaos and tyranny that will surely ensue if we allow a shadowy cabal to drown out reality with a blizzard of "Alternative Facts."
     
  10. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #10
    Of the four things quoted by Carlin, you skipped three. Arguably, you skipped all four.

    Cute. And expected.
     
  11. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #11
    You post this all the time, but what you don't get is the left did have problems with Obama and his expansion of wars. The problem was they also realized that the alternatives were just as bad in this area and worse in others. You have also said that you don't like Trump but are happy that he is in office instead of Clinton. That is how many on the left felt about Obama and Romney.
     
  12. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #12
    I was about to point that out :D
    --- Post Merged, Feb 21, 2017 ---
    congrats on getting Trump elected.
     
  13. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #13
    Debt is probably the hardest to be consistent on. Clearly austerity is bad (see Greece as the chief example) but people also need to pay back debt whenever times are good with a low bar (and now they are good with a low bar).

    With regards to surveillance and wars. I wonder how we can give them more scrutiny. With regards to killing US citizens in ungoverned conflict zones - not fussed whoever is in power as long as they are reasonably defined. I don't see a good way forward there.
     
  14. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #14
    You do realize that George Carlin never said any of that, given the fact he's been dead for 9 years, right?
     
  15. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #15
    do you realize the title off the meme is "I don't believe this"???????????? the mans words transcends dictators :D
     
  16. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #16
    Yes because it's both funny and true.
     
  17. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    #17
    Yes we can. People can legitimately disagree on what constitutes truth. "Truth" is not an objective reality that we can all always agree on. Facts can be complicated; they are not things we can easily see and pick up while walking along the road. Different people can reach different conclusions as to what is true after reviewing and analyzing the same information about events that may have or didn't happen.
     
  18. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #18
    I've said this before: But I'm not going to spend a lot of time repeating the same facts that have been pointed out, to you and others, dozens of times before.

    I'm certainly not going to get into a debate with a bumper sticker or some .gif file you found on the Internet. George Carlin died in June 2008. So I doubt very seriously he has much of an opinion on the successes and failures of the Obama Presidency.

    If you want to have a debate, try conducting one.
     
  19. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #19
    if you remove George from the equation and simply read what is in there you as already shown will engage in extreme mental gymnastics to excuse obama's misdeeds. why not try addressing them if you really want to debate?
     
  20. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #20
    Why not try addressing your ignoring Trump's continuing of military action in the Middle East instead of dismissing it when it is pointed out that you have the same attitude towards Trump as many liberals had towards Obama on the same issue?
     
  21. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #21
    YOU obviously have not read my post on the matter..... unlike most of you who pretend that being silent is good enough punishment I have been pretty vocal against trump. I complained about his EO's, said I like my muslims like I like my guns, unregistered among other things.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 21, 2017 ---
    difference between plenty of you and myself is ,height, looks, credit score, legal status, proficiency in English, manners, sex appeal ................. I mean main difference is that you guys vote AGAINST someone while I look to vote FOR someone. just a letter next to their name does NOT cut it for me as it does most of YOU.
     
  22. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #22
    So, you took time to come here and say that you aren't taking time to come here.
     
  23. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #23
    Who was the American citizen "killed without due process?"

    Answer: Anwar al-Awlaki. An individual who was conclusively linked to not just some of the perpetrators of 9/11; but also the Fort Dix attacks, the 2005 London bombings, and the 2010 Times Square bomber.

    Civil rights groups did, indeed, claim that the drone strike that killed al-Awlaki was "without due process." But al-Awlaki was engaged in an ongoing war against the United States. From refuges far from the reach of US law enforcement personnel, he conducted a campaign of indoctrination and recruitment of terrorists.

    I am quite certain that ordering the strike on al-Awlaki was not something President Obama entered into lightly. I am sure they discussed every reasonable method of apprehending him lawfully. But in the final analysis, someone who has declared war on the United States, who continues to instigate and perpetrate acts of terror against this country has to be dealt with.

    There were US citizens who joined Nazi forces in Germany during WWII. Were these people entitled to the protections of "due process" as they fired weapons at our troops, and those of our allies, as they waged war against us?

    Stop pushing these absurd false equivalences. Or at least be prepared to discuss them in detail. What would YOU have done about al-Awlaki, as he continued to recruit terrorists to commit acts of war against the United States?
     
  24. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #24
    If they died under bombs, not a problem.
    If they were THE target while not posing an immediate threat, it's a whole different ballgame.
     
  25. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #25
    Different war, different challenges.

    But that doesn't answer the question: How do YOU think Obama should have responded to the challenge posed by Anwar al-Awlaki? Do nothing? And accept responsibility and blame for the next al-Awlaki-inspired terrorist attack in New York or Berlin?

    There are no easy answers. The Presidency is a very hard job. It requires great humanity, great wisdom, and a deep understanding of the enormity of the challenges facing anyone who wields great power.

    But let's kid not ourselves that America's liberal and progressive people bear responsibility for the reckless idiocy and incompetence of Donald Trump. We did everything we could to elect our candidate. A highly-skilled, knowledgeable, if periodically imperfect, politician. Responsibility for the election of the Sh*tgibbon Donald Trump lies solely on the delusions and mendacity of the Right.
     

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