How do criminals get their guns?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mrkramer, Oct 3, 2015.

  1. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #1
    After reading many of the gun apologist's arguments on here about how gun control won't stop criminals from getting guns as they will find ways to obtain them anyway. I found this article on the NY Times that looks at how the shooters got their guns in 14 recent mass shootings, interestingly enough almost all of them purchased the weapons they used legally. It appears the one exception to this is Adam Lanza who didn't buy the guns himself but instead stole them from his mother who bought them legally.

    Given that it seems most criminals get their guns legally, or at best stolen from someone who bought them legally, wouldn't it make sense to restrict legal ownership of guns and as a result make it less likely for the bad guys to get the guns?
     
  2. bruinsrme macrumors 601

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  3. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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    #3
    ard you using common core math? How does 14% = most criminals?

    We already have plenty of restrictions.
     
  4. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #4
    Where did you get the 14% number from?
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Try reading the OP
     
  6. Praxis91 macrumors regular

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  7. mrkramer, Oct 3, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015

    mrkramer thread starter macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #7
    Somewhat, but as you can see 8 out of the 14 had documented criminal history and or mental illness, and they weren't stopped from legally obtaining guns under the current system.

    It didn't say anything about 14% it was looking at 14 mass shootings which are the majority of the ones from the past few years, there are some that they didn't include in the list, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if those shooters also got their guns legally.
     
  8. mrkramer thread starter macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #8
    Where did I or the article say anything about 14%, please go back and read it yourself and quote the relevant part about it being 14%.
     
  9. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #9
    The OP says that of the last 14 mass gun killings all but one got the guns legally. That is 13/14 which isn't 14%. The Linked article Backs it up.

    Could you quote the 14% bit? Unless the post was edited. Are you sure you can do "core math"?
     
  10. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #10
    On the phone. I'll sit corrected
     
  11. bruinsrme macrumors 601

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    #11
    Thank you for answering your own question.
    There are restrictions and if the person falls into one of those categories and obtains a gun, look at the government agencies and ask why aren't they going their job.

    If a person becomes depressed should they be forced to take public transportation because they may decide to drive into a crowd of people?

    Would there be such discussions on different device? Perhaps leaving a back pack somewhere with a pressure cooker inside? Restrictions on those item too?

    The are restrictions. Your question is essentially asking, since the government can't even perform basic checks effectivelye, we should demand more through checks. Someone isn't doing their job and it's not the gun shop owner or responsible person looking to purchase a weapon.
     
  12. mrkramer thread starter macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #12
    While this is an off topic post I'll still respond briefly to it, if you want to discuss how drugs get to the market I would recommend starting a different thread, I will point out that many drugs come from natural products that are not difficult to grow at home. On the other hand a gun doesn't grow out of the ground, and even if you try to machine the components yourself at home a homemade gun is as likely to blow up in the user's face as it is to actually hit the target.

    If you want to discuss drugs more please start a new thread on the topic, as it has no relevance whatsoever to the topic of criminals obtaining guns legally.
     
  13. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #13
    Let's hope you are never "on your phone" if you need to make a decision to use you guns.
     
  14. mrkramer thread starter macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #14
    At least in California, and I'd assume there are similar laws for different states, although I haven't looked them up, the DMV can take someone's license for mental illness.

     
  15. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #15
    Government, government, government. The scapegoat of the middle class American male.
     
  16. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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    #16
    Is than not the govt you want to pass more gun control?
     
  17. .Andy macrumors 68030

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    #17
    When have I called for the government to impose more gun control?

    My position has always been that it should be up to the individual to make rational decisions based on the evidence. And the evidence is that a gun in the home increases the risk of death of the occupants. It is irresponsible to have a gun in the home and even more so it is irresponsible to have a gun in the home with children (even moreso such as your case where you leave them unsecured). This is a position shared by the American Colleges of Physicians, Pediatricians, and surgeons. The fact that the vast majority of mass gun killings are with legal guns in the home just reinforces this.
     
  18. IHelpId10t5 macrumors 6502

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    #18
    Removing guns from society in the US is at this point not a reasonable solution. I am an educated, liberal, non-religious (yet more moral than most) American that has guns, and Children, in my home. I however manage the presence of guns in my house in a more responsible way than 99.9% of Americans manage their use of smartphones while driving every day. Guns in the home only increase deaths in cases where problems or irresponsible adults already existed in the household. Don't confuse correlation with causation when putting your faith in articles and studies that you read on social media sites.

    I'll be obvious here in saying that guns do not kill people, people do. A gun is a tool. I didn't give my Kids access to kitchen knives or let them reach household chemicals until they were at an age that understood the risks associated with these tools and could be expected to use them in a responsible manner. I also still don't allow my kids access to an unlocked firearm unless under my supervision. And, in their early teens, they are now fully trained in the responsible handling and use of firearms. The problem is not with firearms, pressure cookers, airplanes, cars, or any other tool. The problem is with crazy people.

    Unfortunately, we still live in an ignorant world where a huge majority of people still believe in imaginary Gods and that that the Republican party represents them. Until that insanity changes, there is simply no hope in stopping an occasional lunatic from abusing a tool that the Constitution grants all responsible Americans access to. Maybe we should instead be discussing which Americans should have access to any potentially dangerous tools. What do you think? Is it reasonable that the government should instead take away the Internet because it's the tool that many parents used to read misleading social media articles that told them to not vaccinate their kids? Realistically, that will kill more kids this year than any crazy gunman!
     
  19. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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    #19
    Already made my decision
     
  20. .Andy macrumors 68030

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    #20
    Can you provide the evidence for this please?

    Where did I cite articles from social media sites? Can you quote my posts please? Or is this a poorly thought-out strawman argument?

    Here is a single post of what I have referenced in the past (there are far more from my posting history including statistics on suicide). Not a single study from a "social media" site.
     
  21. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #21
    A reminder one of your "decisions" is to leave shotguns and ammunition unsecured and accessible by your children. You are by your own admission the very illustration of an irresponsible gun owner.
     
  22. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #22
    And even in Britain you'd be allowed to own guns without question.
     
  23. mrkramer thread starter macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #23
    Cigarets don't kill people either. Personally I think we should treat guns about the same way, put restrictions on them, and as a society work to where it is no longer socially acceptable to use them.
     
  24. Solomani macrumors 68030

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    #24
    They should pass a psychiatric competency exam first before they are issued a gun permit.
     
  25. bruinsrme macrumors 601

    bruinsrme

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    #25

    Many people
    Scapegoat? The government sets the laws and has assumed responsibility to enforce them.

    I am all for background checks and waiting periods. This thread opened up with a link indicating the background checks either failed or weren't completed on time. The government, whether it be local, FBI or other agencies apparently are not doing THEIR job.

    The President, Senators, Representatives, Governors and Mayor are standing on their GOVERNMENT platforms preaching tougher gun control. Yet the agencies they oversee are failing in their responsibilities.
     

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