How every US president should be viewed/held to account by the public

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by the8thark, Jun 8, 2017.

  1. the8thark macrumors 68040

    the8thark

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    Apr 18, 2011
    #1
    1. Respect the office of the President - Which many are not doing now.
    2. Work with the President to help make a better nation - As JFK said, ask what you can do for your nation, not what your nation can do for you.
    3. Hold all Presidents equally to account - Many people consider Obama to be a saint and Trump to be the devil. In reality neither is correct. Both have their flaws and both deserve respect.
    4. Work positively for change, not negatively for change - This means stop the riots, stop the pointless petitions for stupid things. Start doing actual research and formulating ways you can submit to government to help the nation.
    5. Understand when a President you don't like has done something good and when a President you do like has done bad - The proof here is the banning of certain people entering the US for a certain length of time. Much of this both Obama and Trump did. The exact same things. People said it was a great move by Obama but a terrible move by Trump. It's the same thing, in the same context. This really proved that many people don't care what is done, only who does it.

    All of this applies to every president, whether you like them or not.

    This does not mean you have to like the president. It means you respect the office of the president and want to actually improve the nation, not divide it.

    Many people hate when I say "hold Obama and Trump both equally to account". They simply can't or refuse to treat all Presidents equally. However I have given 5 simple steps in which everyone can help out, treat all Presidents equally and make the nation a better place.
     
  2. fitshaced macrumors 68000

    fitshaced

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    #2
    How about every vote counts? Maybe then you'd get your fairy tale.
     
  3. daflake macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 8, 2008
    #3
    I agree, it is sad that we have such a polorized population in the USA right now. Sadly, I don't see that gap shrinking....
    --- Post Merged, Jun 8, 2017 ---
    Every vote does count... Just because you don't like the way it works doesn't mean that they don't count. Your vote tells the electorate which way to vote.
     
  4. the8thark thread starter macrumors 68040

    the8thark

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    Apr 18, 2011
    #4
    Every vote does count now though. The college system makes sure that even the smaller states have their issues heard as well. Not my fault that you don't like how the current system works.

    Neither do I sadly. Yeah it's quite disappointing.
     
  5. fitshaced macrumors 68000

    fitshaced

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    #5
    The college system means that not every vote counts. It means that a small population state gets the same say as a larger population. I honestly don't know why anyone would defend such a rubbish 'democratic' voting system.
     
  6. Zenithal, Jun 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
  7. UL2RA macrumors 6502a

    UL2RA

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    May 7, 2017
    #7
    The system has been in place since 1804. Is it outdated for our modern time? Possibly, but it's how the voting system has worked for over two centuries. If people feel it should be changed, then they should change it. But complaining about it isn't going to do anything. You can think it's rubbish all you want, but it exists to give smaller populated states a voice. Until there is a better system in place, it's going to be around for a while.
     
  8. the8thark thread starter macrumors 68040

    the8thark

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    Apr 18, 2011
    #8
    Larger states get more electors. So it's fair.

    Watch this video. It'll show you how the college system is indeed a fair way of electing a President.
     
  9. Bug-Creator, Jun 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017

    Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

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    #9
    Wake us up when Trump starts doing one of those points.....
     
  10. niploteksi macrumors regular

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    Dec 11, 2016
    #10
    I bet people will hop right to it once they understand what he says.
     
  11. sorcery macrumors regular

    sorcery

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    Ring of Fire
    #11
    Have we got no members from counries with proportional representation systems, for their viewpoint?
    A German friend told me, back in the 80s, that their govt. could get nothing done, because of it.
    Personally don't see much difference in the end result, whether US, UK, Australia or other systems. A very true democracy does not appear to work that well, as known by the ancient Greeks.
    However, a well informed electorate is useful. And, thanks to biased media, we are far from having that.
    I am independant and able to see some advantage in the current Presidency, albeit I would never vote for such a person.
     
  12. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

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    #12
    Lot of things could have been done if Kohl had had any vision to speak of.

    Every goverment allways had a mayority in the Bundestag by the coalition of parties that voted the goverment in.
    Problem is that most laws also have to pass through the Bundesrat (a bit like the Senate in the US) which has the odd rule that a none-vote is counted as a no-vote.
    A standard clause in coaltion treaties for regional goverments is that there will be a none-vote in the Bundesrat if the partners disagree.
    Now add a situation where most regional coaltion follow different color-chemes compared to the federal one and you have deadlock. But in contrast to the US everybody is (allmost) allways ready to make a deal/compromise.
     
  13. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #13
    With respect to various points the OP made:
    • I think everyone here respects the office of the president.
    • If the man in the White House isn't working to make a better nation, how can we work with him?
    • Who claimed Obama was a saint and Trump the devil? Obama was flawed like most of us. Trump however lacks a moral compass and has a personality disorder that makes it impossible for people to work with him.
    • When faced with negative change, we should resist.
    • We need to stop the false equivalencies, including the one about Obama's and Trump's immigration restrictions.
     
  14. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #14
    You must not know how the system works then because it doesn't mean that smaller states get the same say as a larger population, each state is provided a different amount of college votes. California would outweigh Kansas many times over.

    Solely focusing on two states will probably end up screwing you though.
     
  15. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #15
    because states like CA and NY together don't get to decide elections for the other 48 which is what you seem to want.
     
  16. daflake macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 8, 2008
    #16
    Then you don't understand the system. Your vote does indeed count to sway the electorate who votes at the larger level for you. Popular vote would mean that two states would dominate the system and explain to me how that is fair? Maybe it doesn't matter to you becuase you think that eveyone should share your beliefs and values? Not...
     
  17. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    UK
    #17
    Why would two states dominate the system?
     
  18. daflake macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    Cali and NY are high population centers. Although Texas and Florida are also heavily populated, Cali is the highest and those two states would basically dominate the vote while never changing from the democratic side. It is the reason that many liberals want the electoral college removed. Smaller population states (mid-west farmland) would never have their values or beliefs recognized. It would kill the two party system for the worse in my opinion.
     
  19. jpietrzak8, Jun 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017

    jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #19
    There's a fundamental difference with Trump in this case. He ran specifically on not being politically correct, on directly insulting people (and insulting their physical properties and their family members, not their policy positions), and on never, ever apologizing about anything.

    I don't see any reason why anyone who has been humiliated by this man should ever want to work with him. Certainly, he's provided no leadership beyond "I won, you lost, so suck it up idiot".

    There's a reason why political correctness is useful when trying to bring people together to lead them.
     
  20. BeeGood macrumors 65816

    BeeGood

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    #20
    I guess this is where I have to plead ignorance, because I've never really understood this argument.

    California gets 55 electoral votes, which is 5-10 times more votes than any of the states in the Midwest. Aren't they already dominating the election?
     
  21. s2mikey macrumors 68020

    s2mikey

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    Upstate, NY
    #21
    Its conveniently rubbish when your candidate doesnt win, right? Do you really want New York and California to decide how the entire country goes? Maybe you do but many others dont. Sorry. :)

    Those big states already get a LOT of electoral votes. Im not saying the electoral college isnt without issues but its better than letting 3-4 big cities decide the fate of the entire country. No thanks.
     
  22. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #22
    Oh, they absolutely are getting a huge share of the electoral votes! But that share is not directly proportional to the number of citizens living there. Each citizen in, say, Montana, receives a much larger share of the electoral college vote than each California citizen.
     
  23. nia820 macrumors 68000

    nia820

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    #23
    Agent Orange should first respect the presidency and then maybe people will respect him. He has made the presidency into a joke. He spends tax payers money like it's nothing to go golfing on the weekends to Florida or NJ. The man constantly bashes celebrities and other politicians on twitter. Little hard to be positive when Trump is so negative.

    Trump has openly lied on countless occasions. How can anyone respect a president who openly lies?

    We are losing allies faster than we're making them because of his big mouth and his Twitter fingers.
     
  24. samcraig macrumors P6

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    Jun 22, 2009
    #24
    I agree to a point. However - Someone's role and the person they are - too very different things.
     
  25. tgara, Jun 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017

    tgara macrumors 6502a

    tgara

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    #25
    What's interesting is to watch the flux of population between the states and see how the representatives (and hence the votes in the Electoral College) change. Compare electors in 1960 vs today and you'll be amazed.

    In recent years, there's been an exodus of people from economically stagnant states, places like Connecticut, Illinois, to some extent California and New York, as well as an influx of people to more prosperous states, such as Florida and Georgia and Texas. Note that the states from which people and businesses are moving are all heavily Democrat and have been run by Democrats for decades. The states experiencing population growth are those run by Republicans. Connecticut has lost representatives due to population loss, and some are saying Illinois might lose 1-2 representatives as well. New York and Florida each have 29 electoral votes, but that's going to change with the next census when Florida pulls ahead. This, compounded with everything else, does not bode well for Democrats.
     

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