How Expensive is War? Your Opinion Requested

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Huntn, Jul 24, 2017.

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  1. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #1
    Think about this please. Our priorities in the US are really screwed up. We happily march off to war while we let our house fall down. Healthcare, welfare, infrastructure, education, are small potatoes compared to the elephant in the room. Our trend of sliding into greater and greater National Debt could be reversed with adjustments. Specifically we have politicians in this country more concerned about dropping bombs on people than focus on our own citizens' welfare.

    Federal Debt Clock
    Today’s Federal Debt is $19,844,968,852,152.58.
    The amount is the gross outstanding debt issued by the United States Department of the Treasury since 1790 and reported here.
    But, it doesn’t include state and local debt.
    And, it doesn’t include so-called “agency debt.”
    And, it doesn’t include the so-called unfunded liabilities of entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare.
    Federal Debt per person is about $60,818
    .

    Military Spending in the United States
    In fiscal year 2015, military spending is projected to account for 54 percent of all federal discretionary spending, a total of $598.5 billion. Military spending includes: all regular activities of the Department of Defense; war spending; nuclear weapons spending; international military assistance; and other Pentagon-related spending.

    [​IMG]

    The Iraq war was sold as a 2 year, $100 billion commitment by the Dick.
    Financial Costs of Iraq War
    The costs of the 2003-2010 Iraq War are often contested, as academics and critics have unearthed many hidden costs not represented in official estimates. The most recent major report on these costs come from Brown University in the form of the Costs of War, which totaled just over $1.1 trillion. The Department of Defense's direct spending on Iraq totaled at least $757.8 billion, but also highlighting the complementary costs at home, such as interest paid on the funds borrowed to finance the wars.

    Those figures are dramatically higher than typical estimates published just prior to the start of the Iraq War, many of which were based on a shorter term of involvement. For example, in a March 16, 2003 Meet the Press interview of Vice President Dick Cheney, held less than a week before the Iraq War began, host Tim Russert reported that "every analysis said this war itself would cost about $80 billion, recovery of Baghdad, perhaps of Iraq, about $10 billion per year. We should expect as American citizens that this would cost at least $100 billion for a two-year involvement."[1]



    The True Cost of the Afghanistan War May Surprise You
    A truer measure of the wars' total costs pegs them at between $4 trillion and $6 trillion. This fuller accounting includes "long-term medical care and disability compensation for service members, veterans and families, military replenishment and social and economic costs," Harvard economist Linda Bilmes calculated in 2013.

    The only chart you need to see to know that the US spends more on its military than the next 11 countries combined
    It's no surprise the United States pours more money into its military than any other country in the world.
    In 2015, the US had a defense budget of about $597 billion, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies' most recent World Military Balance report, released earlier this year.
    In short, that's more than the next 11 countries combined
    .
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #2
    always the devil advocate I will say that most of you can't even accept WHY we are at war, we are at war to prop up the dollar, nothing more.
     
  3. Zenithal macrumors 603

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    #3
    War is fantastic. It pads my investments in the defense market.


    At least I'm being honest. :)
     
  4. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #4
    If we had to fund our wars, instead of putting them on the nation's credit card, I predict a spontaneous outbreak of peace.
     
  5. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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  6. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #6
    How expensive is war? The financial cost is the least of it the cost in lives lost or lives ruined is phenomenal.It's caused by bellicose and in many cases psychotic leaders.
    The old libertarian saying that "war is a weapon with a worker on both ends of it " largely still holds true in spite of the high tech bombing from great heights carried out by the most aggressive countries.
    Talking of which the major charge at Nurenburg (which resulted in the hanging of leading Nazis ) was "pursuing a war of aggression" something the ICC has being trying for years to become a charge at the Hague (the United States of course is not a member of that or many other international organisations ) it looks as if they may succeed soon although the law will not be retrospective . That will let many war criminals of the hook including most of the surviving US presidents and Brit leaders like Blair all who should be behind bars in any right acting nation state.
    Now in my lifetime this isn't going to happen on a large scale but until humans realise that leaders are the problem and not a solution I fear war will continue.
    Of course there are stand out groups going against the grain the Kurds of Rojava being the present stand out example but circumstances have forced them in to alliance with the US who are supplying air support.At the same time the US's NATO ally Turkey (with a near perfect example of a psychotic leader) is attacking them with planes ,artillery and infantry whilst at the same time funding and arming many Turkoman terrorist groups.Not to mention all the help they are giving to daesh for which there is a mass of evidence for anyone not walking around with their eyes closed like the mainstream western media.
    I fear the Syrian Kurds will pay dearly for their alliances with the US and Russia.
    By the way there are quite a few European and north American libertarians fighting with them in solidarity.

    Like the song says:
    Man it's war ago go
    and theres plenty good money to be made supplying the tools of the trade.
     
  7. dogslobber macrumors 68030

    dogslobber

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    #7
    USA military spending is 10x that of Russia and 3x that of China. We're not at war with China and Russia has the same military spending as Saudi Arabia. Chop the military budget in half and spend some of the savings treating our vets, fixing USA infrastructure, and properly funding the ACA. The military-industrial complex doesn't need our money anymore.
     
  8. darksithpro, Jul 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017

    darksithpro macrumors 6502

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    #8
    A lot of the technology that we enjoy today is the result of the US Military Industrial Complex. The internet originated from ARPA/DARPA. Tons of others too. Without big military spending we wouldn't be as technologically advanced as we are today.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 24, 2017 ---
    USA GDP is also like 10x more than Russia. If you look at the numbers the US spends about 3.3% of GDP on defense, while Russia spends 5.3%. So if Russia had a gdp equal to USA they would be spending upwards of 900 billion dollars on defense.
     
  9. dogslobber macrumors 68030

    dogslobber

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    #9
    I've never used the internet so don't think that would impact me if it didn't exist.
    That's speculation on your part. I don't think even a country as incompetent and corrupt as Russia could squander nearly $1t in a single year.
     
  10. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

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    #10
    Learn to read your graph:
    6% Veteran benefits is also military spending.....
     
  11. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #11
    I'd be happier with our military spending if it was effective and the troops were given decent weapons with which to fight, be we can't seem to manage that (F-35, Littoral Combat ships, new Ford-class aircraft carriers, Zumwalt destroyer, B-1,...).
     
  12. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #12
    Sure we can calculate the cost in monetary terms. But what is the cost in lives and destruction of natural resources? The cultural losses cannot be calculated, unknown numbers of irreplaceable works of art, literature, music lost.

    They need to conduct war like they did in ancient times, the leader duked it out. The winning general's army win that battle. The dead general's army goes home. Enough saber rattling, let The Donald fight the Crazy, Fat Kid on PPV.;)
     
  13. LordVic macrumors 601

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    #13
    I don't know how much it actually does cost

    but would it really be so bloody bad to move 50Billion from spending on military to healthcare? is 550+ billion on military that much more important than taking care of your people at home?
     
  14. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #14
    We don't even take care of our veterans when we are done with them. Why would we take care of anyone else.
     
  15. Huntn, Jul 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #15
    This seems like a critical post. :rolleyes: You're point? Veteran medical expenses sky rocket during never ending conflicts, not to mention harm to military families, deaths, permanent crippling, mental issues, divorces, etc.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 24, 2017 ---
    Take the time to document and I'm happy to listen. I've said multiple times, the military industrial complex thrives, makes money, only when there is war. This is people making money, they profit. Tell how our dollar is propped up. We certainly are not profiting Nationally, but sinking deeper into debt.

    I'm not saying you are wrong btw and I have no dea why you are so sure "most of us" can't accept this. You have any documentation for that or is just more emulating our President? :oops:
     
  16. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #16
    I'll throw in here, that we don't know how many times we've killed the next Einstein or Jesus as victims of collateral damage.
     
  17. Huntn, Jul 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #17
    That's really not funny.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 24, 2017 ---
    Absolutely, 100%, you'd see 60's style anti-war protests if our taxes were raised to actually pay for our involvement. Instead we are sinking into a fiscal morass by way of our two major political parties. However, if they could I believe the Democrats would raise taxes for such a purpose if they were not threatened with losing their political Leadership positions.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 24, 2017 ---
    We need to cut back and get our house in order instead of watching it crumble around us.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 24, 2017 ---
    The military is a $$ addict to feed it's habit, with eyes bigger than it's stomach. There is cutting edge, but it has to work, you have to be able to afford it, and civilians have to keep the habit under control.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 24, 2017 ---
    According to the GOP it would be a freaking disaster, wasting money on average citizens? :oops: This is why the GOP has to go or evolve into something other than the blood suckers for profits they are.
     
  18. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 603

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #18
    Too expensive and more often than not ends in complete failure. I don't think I need to give examples.
     
  19. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #19
    War is cheap considering how much we engage in it.
     
  20. Zenithal macrumors 603

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    #20
    It wasn't meant to be. Nor was it a joke. If you presumed I was joking, I was not. I've stated at least half a dozen times in my time on this forum that I have and still am heavily invested in American defense companies. Wars where the US is involved or our allies or two rebel factions see an increase in stock prices, henceforth padding my investments.

    I can't say I'm a heartless individual, but I also don't care much about what happens in a third world nation on the other side of the planet. Chances are, it won't affect but a few American lives, unless we're directly involved. At the end of the day, I made money, and to me that's all that matters.

    It's why I've always been blunt and open about my investment, and never tarted my posts up to seem like a genuinely caring soul for strangers in a very distant country. I don't care.
     
  21. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #21
    That's great. The Pentagon LOST $2.3 TRILLION dollars over the last two decades. That's half the bill for completely overhauling our national infrastructure. But yea, I guess it evens out because we have the internet now.....
     
  22. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 603

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #22
    I wouldn't say you are heartless, more a financial parasite that makes money off the back of death and misery, completely careless about it because it doesn't affect people like yourself directly. I'm actually a little gobsmacked reading such brutal honesty that most decent people would be deeply ashamed of.

    It reminds me a bit of a farmer in my hometown who welded illegal cut and shut cars for years. One he sold killed 5 teenagers from my school and he was let off with a warning. He was soon doing it again because at the end of the day he was making money and his family were the ones being killed. Dreadful.
     
  23. Zenithal macrumors 603

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    #23
    You're comparing investing into defense to someone who knowingly placed an effort into harming others. I also made a tidy sum during the recession. Clearly I'm evil. I prefer to be honest with what I do and what I've done rather than sugarcoating it and coming off as someone who cares about certain issues when I don't. That doesn't sit well with me.

    I'm perfectly fine with the above, but I won't invest in private prisons. I'm not actually evil. I do have a heart. I don't believe in private prisons. But certain complexes need to keep rolling to keep manufacturing jobs afoot. Be it in my country or yours.
     
  24. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 603

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #24
    No, I was comparing it to a farmer who was selling illegal cut and shut cars for money. He wasn't intentionally doing it to harm people, just reckless and careless in his pursuit for a quick buck. Anyway that is small fry I think in comparison to defence companies that make huge profits from war.

    I haven't got much more to say though as this topic isn't really a debate I don't think.
     
  25. Zenithal macrumors 603

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    #25
    Not going to debate further, but what you said makes no sense. If you're looking toward making a quick buck, you're doing something purposefully to get there knowing what you're doing is going to put others in a bind.

    I don't work in the defense industry. I merely invest in it. I do work in an industry most people hate, but that's beside the point.
     

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