How Good Are CCW Permit Holders Under Pressure

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rdowns, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #1
    While reading of yet another accidental gun incident (Texas school employee shoots self at training class to arm teachers), I came across this video from an ABC News report. Found it very interesting. Kind of scary given these students were given more training that the average CCW permit holder.

     
  2. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #3
    I believe I mention this a few weeks ago, but it's well worth a repeat:

    My emphasis.

    Sorry for the lengthy quote, but the original article is on a pay site for Time.
     
  3. rdowns thread starter macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #4

    I see an old man round a corner and start shooting even though others were within his line of sight. I also see an old man blindly shoot out the door with no regard to anyone who may have been walking by.
     
  4. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #5
    Well it's not like the bullets will go sideways out of the barrel lol.

    I just wanted to show an example of where somebody reacts to pressure in a real life scenario.
     
  5. rdowns thread starter macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #6

    No, you wanted to post something contrary to the thread without having even watched the videos.
     
  6. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #7
    No I watched the video. I skipped past a couple of parts though. I did find it funny that the instructor "practices" using an airsoft gun. What a joke.

    I posted something contrary, because there needs to be balance to any argument like this. Sure, these guys reacted badly, but the old man didn't.
     
  7. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #8
    Just answering the question asked in the title: Generally not well.

    I have personal experience of officers in clear shooting situation not engage or shoot. I know the same has been documented in military combat situations as well. The bottom line is that no one knows how another person will react in a critical incident until tested. The better the training the better chances of a good result.

    I worked for a large metro in California but rarely came across a person with a CCW. While those that I have I'd say are minimally skilled but meet the minimum qualifications by law. Sad the standards are so low. I am struck by the hubris exhibited by most CCW holders.

    I'm not against CCWs (much) but I do wish the training and requal requirements were more stringent.
     
  8. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #9
    Yup. I agree for the most part. I think the standards and training requirements could be more stringent as well. They shouldn't just let any joe-blow carry concealed.
     
  9. rdowns thread starter macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #10


    Yes eric/. I posted 13+ minutes of video at 7:51 and you posted your link 4 minutes later. I want to learn how to watch video that fast.

    Based on how CCWs should act, according to what I've been told here by the pro-gun side, the old man did NOT react properly. Again, he came running around the corner and shot with innocents in front of him and them he fired blindly through the door not knowing if anyone was outside.
     
  10. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #11
    Well...
     
  11. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #12
    Given the situation its better to try and fail than get shot sitting there like a victim or a coward.

    Teachers being armed is just as much a psychological deterrent
     
  12. GermanyChris macrumors 601

    GermanyChris

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    #13
    No one knows how they are going to react to being shot at until they are..

    I always thought that was kinda obvious.
     
  13. zioxide macrumors 603

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    That guy should be thrown in prison. He's lucky he didn't kill anyone.

    Skipping 9 minutes of a 13 minute video isn't a "couple of parts", it's almost 3/4s of the damn video.

    The old man is an idiot and should be in prison. He's not a cop or rambo. He was shooting all over the place with a bunch of innocent bystanders around, and clearly he wasn't a good shot since he didn't hit either of the robbers. He should be charged and jailed.

    In a situation like that where two dumb teenagers are robbing an internet cafe, you let them take your iphone and your $20 bucks and leave. Let the situation diffuse itself. Don't start a ****ing firefight in a room crowded with innocent bystanders. Anyone who is as stupid as this old man should never be allowed to touch a gun again.

    It sounds just like the TSA. It's just the illusion of being secure while it doesn't actually do anything.
     
  14. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #15
    If law enforcement officers and military personnel trained in combat and schooled in the art of tactics in conflict has trouble under fire then certainly the run of the mill private CCW holder might even have more trouble.

    That notion I thought was kinda obvious too.

    Thanks for the reality check.
     
  15. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #16
    It's common for people to assume they are more competent than they actually are.

    Excerpts from the American Psychological Association ...

     
  16. GermanyChris macrumors 601

    GermanyChris

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    #17
    which is why I said what I said in the other gun thread about aiming center mass if you're going to shoot. It's also why I'd prefer most people don't keep a gun handy for home defense adrenaline and lack of sleep will make you make bad decisions and make you an inaccurate shot. The argument applies to CCW also.
     
  17. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #18
    This is also why a gun in the home is much more likely to injure or kill someone who lives there or their friend than it is to be successfully used on an intruder.
     
  18. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #19
    You're also more likely to do X if you Y.

    Does that mean we should ban Y?
     
  19. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #20
    Is Y banned?

    No. It is not.


    You question should be...


    You're also more likely to do X if you Y.

    Should there be reasonable restrictions put in place that allow you to do Y but reduce the chances that X will occur as a result?
     
  20. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #21
    Depending on us mutually agreeing on the restrictions, sure. If we don't agree, than no unless you want to use force to make me agree to your restrictions. Then you're just a violent person.
     
  21. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #22
    I respect the laws allowing guns in public despite my personal views. However when it comes to home defense I feel every citizen needs the capability to defend theirself and family for the ten to twenty minutes it takes LE to arrive. I fully buy into the adage that if you find yourself in a fair fight, then your tactics suck.
     
  22. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #23
    We don't have to mutually agree.

    Sometimes you are in the minority and don't get your way.

    That's not violence. That's not force.

    That is democracy in action.
     
  23. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

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  24. GermanyChris macrumors 601

    GermanyChris

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    #25
    Contingency planning is great...

    If you're going to pull the trigger aim center mass..
     

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