How long before #45 tarrif is overturned by Congress?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Mar 22, 2018.

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  1. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
    There is a STRONG resistance by Republicans against the #45 tariffs, and actually some support for the tariffs by Democrats.

    But in total I am pretty sure there is an overwhelming congressional majority willing to overturn the #45 tariffs.

    As can be seen by this article
    [​IMG]

    I guess maybe 2 weeks before rumblings of legislation.

    PS EDIT:
    These tariffs WILL impact my company.
     
  2. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #2
    Might depend on how much the dow free falls.
     
  3. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #3
    I used to be of the opinion that presidents themselves may have an indirect impact on markets that they can't make or break them. Trump may be the exception here.
     
  4. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #4
    There was a bill by Lee back in 2017 that didn't move, that may change.
     
  5. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #5
    That's a pretty misleading graphic.

    I don't see why number of members is a metric of any significance when it comes to economics. To me it would be more sensible to make the metric be economic significance, e.g. how big the company's revenues or profits are, or how many they employ. Not every company has equal economic importance, but counting them as if they do is profoundly misleading.

    Also, I suspect there's a considerable overlap in membership. For example, nothing prevents a small retailer from being a member of National Small Business Association, National Retail Federation, and US Chamber of Commerce. So by counting members, any company that's a member of multiple orgs has its importance inflated for each org it joins. You'd have to filter by unique membership at least. You'd have to do the same thing if you're using company revenues or profits as the metric, so that's got to done regardless.

    Finally, it's entirely possible that a company could be a member of both a group against tariffs and a group for them. So if a small manufacturer is a member of Alliance for American Manufacturing and National Small Business Association, either their membership "cancels out", or they have to make their individual position clear, regardless of which orgs they belong to.

    The teal deer says: Graphic is misleading for multiple reasons; do not trust.
     
  6. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #6
    I agree in the details the gap may not be so big, but the big picture is there is a LOT of push back against the broad tariffs #45 dumped on trade.

    As time goes on the economic impact will be clear, but for now that is the first graph.

    Oh, and since those organizations are lobbyist, even if a company is member of more than one, it still does not void the fact these organizations will put all effort to end #45's tariffs.

    Bottom line, expect huge anti #45 lobby efforts.
     
  7. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #7
  8. mac_in_tosh macrumors 6502

    mac_in_tosh

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    #8
    On Nov. 29, Trump tweeted: "Billions of Dollars are pouring into the coffers of the U.S.A. because of the Tariffs being charged to China, and there is a long way to go."

    Does he not understand that Americans are paying those tariffs?
     
  9. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #9
    Tarrifs mean high prices paid for by American consumers. Either he is a moron or he thinks we all are.
     
  10. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #10
    do you all understand that most of congress is bought out? we don't practice capitalism here, we practice corporatism. tariffs are meant to bring some manufacturing here to the U.S. jobs that could pay a living wage, in my sector thanks to tariffs these CO's mentioned bringing in production to the U.S due to tariffs.
    Amada
    Bystronic
    Mazak

    if your complaint is that we "pay" for these tariffs in higher priced goods then the counter is that cheaper goods also cost us because we also pay people who don't make a living wage through social assistance......
     
  11. mac_in_tosh macrumors 6502

    mac_in_tosh

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    #11
    But tariffs also cause loss of jobs. Do we know what the net result is?
     
  12. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #12
    Clintons NAFTA killed near 1 million jobs , Trump has his own "NAFTA" deal . we are not going to learn what the net result is for years.
    CO I worked for had manufacturing in the U.S AND China, to build in the U.S labor/product alone was $80, to build in China it was $16 DELIVERED to our shores, welders in China were making 60 CENTS per hour vs $25 here. we can't compete there buddy, the CO in question ended up just keeping a few guys to make prototypes and all production was moved to China.
    their "living wage" is no where near what ours is. if we don't keep some skilled jobs here we are all going to end up moving back in with our parents if we still have parents.
     
  13. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #13
    you better call your parents and make your reservations before the other kids fill the place up :p

    the last tax package your president got congress to pass also included incentives to businesses to continue to move jobs offshore......something he and his family have done
     
  14. mac_in_tosh macrumors 6502

    mac_in_tosh

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    #14
    Analogous to how climate change deniers usually start off by saying "I'm no scientist," let me state that I am not an economist. But it appears that most people think that tariffs and trade wars are not the answer as they have net harmful effects (loss of jobs, increased price for goods, reduced exports). As any attempt at corporate regulation to try to address the problem will be shouted down as socialism and have little chance of succeeding, I would ask - what can be done in practice to keep skilled and unskilled jobs here?
     
  15. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #15
    Depends on how long the Trump voters - who are already welfare queens, like midwest farmers, deep-south voters, etc... see even more daunting financial goals to climb.

    Probably a couple months until deep red states reach out to Washington D.C. for federal support. Midwest too, especially steel and coal counties. Because, you know, he was their god.

    What a joke.
     
  16. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #16
    My parents are currently my retirement plan. They come from a time when you actually got a pension and had enough money left over to do some investment if they want to. “Manager” wasn’t any part of their job titles either.

    Good thing I don’t get any of that because I sure don’t want to be seen as part of what is destroying our country. Each year I’m proud to be worse off than I was the year before, the new American Dream.
     
  17. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #17
    Tariffs ...... oh wait those are working
     
  18. stylinexpat, Dec 6, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018

    stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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    #18
    Labor in China is no longer cheap. If you don’t pay the employees well they will not work at the factories for you. You have to pay someone at least $800 per month if you want to keep that person. There is a hire price and a keep price. The problem in America is not just the labor cost but all the other money you have to pay to the mafia that runs the system here. Business overhead expenses are too high in America. They collect all that money and they are still in debt.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 6, 2018 ---
    They are only working for government bringing them extra cash at the customs offices. As product costs go up and retail sales drop the extra amount earned from tariffs at the customs offices will be offset by less money collected from retail sales tax as less people buy new products. They wait longer to upgrade older cars,gadgets,etc..
     
  19. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #19
    How long ago was this? I can't imagine it was within the past few years. China has changed quite a bit since the early 2000s.
     
  20. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #20
    2006 or so
     
  21. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #21
    Yeah. That's later than I would have expected, but I still imagine it would be quite different today.
     
  22. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #22
    well according to the engineer China subsidized the material for many of the CO's who supplied us. so cheap labor and material.
    have you seen the aluminum truck boxes at most autozone/kraven dealers? we could not even buy the material for what they sell the box at and that is their retail price , autozone/kraven buy them for far less :(
     
  23. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #23
    I haven't really seen them up close, although if they're that cheap, they may not carry a high retail markup.

    That's brutal overall though. I was not thinking of subsidies in my response. I was primarily thinking of wage differences. I would not expect Chinese manufacturing wages from a decade ago to compare with them today.
     
  24. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #24
    Iron and steel are strategic too. So the Chinese were probably subsidising.
     
  25. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #25
    hard to say, I left that CO long ago and never looked back. can't be all that much if they are killing themselves over working conditions https://www.theguardian.com/technol...pple-iphone-brian-merchant-one-device-extract
     

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