How to add a lot of external memory to the new MacPro

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by bigbadneil, Mar 20, 2016.

  1. bigbadneil macrumors 6502

    bigbadneil

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    #1
    I am thinking of upgrading my 2012 MacPro to the latest model. My question is I have 18TB of memory in my 2012 MacPro, how can I plug that into my new MacPro??
     
  2. h9826790 macrumors 604

    h9826790

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2014
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    #2
    I guess you mean 18T storage (HDD, SSD, etc), but not 18T memory (RAM).

    Anyway, it seems a simple thunderbolt enclosure or USB 3.0 enclosure is what you need.

    I have a Orico USB 3.0 enclosure, cost about $130, can install up to 5 HDD, build in RAID support, and it can read 6T HDD without any problem. So, it can at least support up to 30T HDD.
     
  3. Machines macrumors 6502

    Machines

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    #3
    Are you talking about secondary storage devices (like hard disk drives) or main system memory (ram sticks) ?
     
  4. orph macrumors 6502a

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    Dec 12, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #4
    Hi i noticed your older post http://forums.macrumors.com/threads...f-storage-on-my-2012-mac-pro-already.1908570/ where people do mention a few external storage systems, might be worth pm them to follow up on suggestions.

    If you drives are independent you can pull them and just stick them in external USB3 cases or buy USB3 drives and copy the data over.

    what do you need from storage?
    do you just need to know your data is safe or do you need all 18TB live all the time (do you relay need all 18TB live all the time or maybe just 2-4TB live at a time)
    will you need to add more storage as you go or is 18TB as much as you need?

    it's important to think about how you are backing up your data as shaunp mentioned in your older post, data loss is always possible and if your work relies on your data it's important to keep backups.
     
  5. bigbadneil thread starter macrumors 6502

    bigbadneil

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    #5
    Thanks for your replies......sorry I didn't mean memory what I mean is Hard Drives. I my current MacPro I have 4 slots one with a 256SSD and 3 6TB drives. The 256 SSD is my working drive the 3 x 6 TB drives are my Storage. It would be really cool if I could uses the 3 x 6TB drives that I already have with a new MacPro......just don't know how to do that??
    Also I'm interested to ask you if i did upgrade my MacPro would I see a noticeable increase in speed, my current model was the highest spec model back in 2012. I use my MP for processing pictures some of which are up to 1GB plus in size and they can slow my computer down quite a bit when processing them from one of my internal storage drives
    --- Post Merged, Mar 20, 2016 ---
     
  6. Machines macrumors 6502

    Machines

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    #6
    It would help to know your current Mac's hardware configuration (processor, memory, etc.)

    If you are dealing with still image editing, you will need a lot of main system memory .

    And a SSD scratch disk for temporarily working on a project would improve performance as well . Avoid a HDD for this function , they are too slow .

    Use HDD for archiving projects .
     
  7. bigbadneil thread starter macrumors 6502

    bigbadneil

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    #7
    Sorry i am on an oil rig right now so I dont know what the confifuraion of my current MP is.
    I just looked at one of these https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Thunderbolt/External-Drive/OWC/ThunderBay-4-RAID5 and want to know if I can fit 3 of these in it 6.0TB HGST Ultrastar He6 3.5-inch SATA 6.0Gb/s (3.0Gb/s and 1.5Gb/s backwards compatible) 7200RPM Enterprise Class Hard Drive with 64MB Cache. HGST/OWC 5 Year Limited Warranty.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 20, 2016 ---
    This is the new MP I am looking at buying
    Screen Shot 2016-03-20 at 14.18.49.png
     
  8. Machines macrumors 6502

    Machines

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    #8
    The OWC product you linked is a TB external RAID enclosure that uses a software RAID method more capable than the Mac's built in software RAID capability . And, it can house four 3.5" drives , each up to 8TB . So, it would seem to work for your needs. You probably don't need to use the RAID capabilities of the enclosure , but if you do I would check their list of approved hard drives . You might experience issues if you don't . OWC's site has live chat support , so you might want to contact them .
     
  9. bigbadneil thread starter macrumors 6502

    bigbadneil

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    #9
    I did contact them and they said the drives will fit thanks
    On the new MP
    There base MP is USD3300 The one I quoted earlier is USD11000...........there is obviously a huge difference in price and I have no idea why, so could someone help me try and understand the difference and would it be necessary for me to get the top of the range............the most intensive work I do in working on picture files in Photoshop with most of the files being 1 to 200MB and some panoramas up to 2 GB
    Thanks in advance
    Screen Shot 2016-03-20 at 14.18.49.png
    Screen Shot 2016-03-20 at 15.00.06.png
     
  10. orph, Mar 20, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016

    orph macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #10
    It's kind of hard to give advice with so little info.
    when you say it's slow in what way is it slow?
    what software do you use?
    what mac pro do you have at the mo? (cpu speed & how meany cores)
    how much ram do you have?
    do you have any PCI card slots free?

    a few things kind of depend on what you do or what is slow for you ie..
    is it slow with bridge browsing large images (i gess tifs? or raw files) then it may be read time
    if it's waiting for filters it's cpu speed
    if your going over the ram limit casing paging (Photoshop can display this if you want) & activity monitor will display this

    a SSD scratch disc may relay help
    a SSD for live projects files may also help
    if you have a spare PCI slot you can get a PCI card that will hold 2 SSD's

    If most your data is not active you might benefit from copying your data on to an external drive setup then geting an internal RAID card, raid up your internal drives and use them only for active projects.

    Photoshop tends to only use 1 or 2 cores at most 99% of the time depending on what version you run
    ( found this looks like it's still true for CC https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Photoshop-CC-Multi-Core-Performance-625/ )
    so the 12 core version will be slower than the 4 core 3.7GHZ mac pro most of the time for Photoshop.
    (the 12 core mac pro is for things like video editing, animation & 3D work etc..)

    if your dependent on your computer for work it might be worth getting professional help locally.
    I have a friend who edits video professionally, useless with computers but amazing at video work he just paid a local company who specialized in setting up professional equipment for video editing to set up his macpro.
    And it relay is worth thinking about backups if you dont have them a HD has a lifetime on average of 1-3years if your useing 6TB drives you will lose a lot of data in one go if your not backed up.

    I store my old projects on external drives in pairs and i dont get drives bigger than 2TB (so i dont lose to much data if something go's bad
    ie for each 2TB of data i have 2 drives with the same files on in case one dies, each drive is just a usb 2/3 drive (older ones are fire wire)
    at the mo i have 8 x 2TB usb3 drives under my desk in pairs dated and labled as drive A or B

    & this site is always worth a look http://macperformanceguide.com/topics/topic-Photoshop.html
     
  11. bigbadneil thread starter macrumors 6502

    bigbadneil

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    #11
    Thanks for the feedback
    Sorry I dont have the MP with me as I am on an Oil Rig in Cameroon. I will be back home in 10 days time so will be able to give you that info then. As for Photoshop I use the new CC version.
    I guess the best thing would be to go and talk with the guys at the apple store in Malaysia where I live and see what they recommend.
    Thanks again
     
  12. dmylrea macrumors 68000

    dmylrea

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    #12
    Keep in mind, if you have a 2012 model, the "latest model" is only a 2013 Mac Pro.

    Apple has done nothing to update the 2013 Mac Pro since. It's pretty old technology for such high prices. You might just keep what you have if you did, indeed, buy a higher configuration back in 2012. Wait and see if Apple has abandoned the Mac Pro or if they do come out with a more modern version.

    For a few hundred dollars (US$) you can install a 512GB Samsung SM951 SSD + adapter card in a slot and get ridiculous FAST read/write speeds. Use that as your "work" drive for those large pictures. Easy/ quick solution. Those SATA bays in your old Mac Pro are pretty slow and an SSD in those bays will be crippled. Put a SM951 on a card in a slot and you will be amazed!

    I think you will be disappointed by the lack of performance increase after you spend all sorts of money on a 2013 model.
     
  13. bigbadneil thread starter macrumors 6502

    bigbadneil

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    #13
    Sorry can you help me understand how to do this.........how do you put a SM951 on a card......what kind of card???
    do you mean like the USB3 card with 3 outlets that I installed in an empty slot??
    --- Post Merged, Mar 20, 2016 ---
    Is this the same as you are talking about for Mac
     

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  14. Machines macrumors 6502

    Machines

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    Jan 23, 2015
    Location:
    Fox River Valley , Illinois
    #14
    I don't think a Cylinder Mac Pro is going to edit CC PS better than a properly upgraded cMP (the term we use here for the older silver Mid Tower Mac Pros) . It seems like a horribly expensive mistake to buy a Cylinder when they are basically optimized to run only FCPX and Logic .

    I would wait until you come home and can share with the forum your current cMP configuration , so we can discuss how to soup it up for your needs . It will be higher performance and less expensive than a Cylinder (which is stuck in time with 2.5 year old technology) . 3 years in the computer industry is a whole generation of technological improvement , which is why a cMP stuffed with modern components will often outperform a more modern Apple product .
     
  15. MrAverigeUser, Mar 20, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016

    MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

    Joined:
    May 20, 2015
    Location:
    europe
    #15
    the 2012 MacPro can be upgraded in a way that he will be more performing than the new MacPros.

    AND: for much less money.

    You can upgrade both (4 or 6-core single-processor and 8 or 12 core double-processor "classic" MacPro) easily
    with up to 3,46 MHz six-core processors (single- or double-processor versions), put in GPUs with much higher performance than in the "new" trash-can-MacPro of 2013, upgrade on up to 128 GB RAM - and with the Armfeltec-PCIe-card reach enormous data-transfer (accepts up to 4x Samsung 951 SSds) : up to 4.000 or even 5.000 MB/second !

    All that will cost you just a fraction of a less performant "new" MacPro - and with the classic MacPro you keep still full upgradability/exchangeability….

    (edit: You can even use all 4 HDD-bases for storing while using a PCIe-Card for 1-4 SSDs - and at least another PCIe-connection = the one for the optical bays for even more…. )


    There are some very good Threads about this in this forum…


    and: be aware that the "Trash-Can"-designed "new" MP have well-known GPU-issues and are much less reliable than the classic Macpros...


    (edit: someone posted this at the same time….)
     
  16. Squuiid macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
    #16
    +1. I would NOT upgrade the 2012 to a 2013. Completely pointless IMO.
    Buy a PCIe SSD like the SM951 or XP941 with a Lycom 120, as well as a GTX680 2GB.
     
  17. bigbadneil thread starter macrumors 6502

    bigbadneil

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    #17
    I know that would be the smart thing to do, but I was hoping to order it and have it shipped to my home in Malaysia so that it is there when I get home in 10 days time
     
  18. MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    May 20, 2015
    Location:
    europe
    #18
    if you prefer to buy a "new" MacPro - just do it.

    good luck.
     
  19. bigbadneil thread starter macrumors 6502

    bigbadneil

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    #19
    Where did that come from...........I now have no plans to buy a new MacPro I just want to make mine faster and I want it NOW.
    I would like to know what these are are what they will do ...................Buy a PCIe SSD like the SM951 or XP941 with a Lycom 120, as well as a GTX680 2GB.
     
  20. austinpike macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Location:
    MN
    #20
    Working on files of that size off a platter hard drive is going to be slow regardless of whether you are using a "classic" or "new" Mac Pro. As mentioned, you need to get your scratch drive and working files onto an SSD.

    They will most likely want you to buy a new Mac Pro and aren't likely to be familiar with upgrade options for your current machine.
     
  21. bigbadneil thread starter macrumors 6502

    bigbadneil

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    #21
    Sorry but I am confused with the terminology of a lot of this stuff.
    Is the.................As mentioned, you need to get your scratch drive and working files onto an SSD.
    is that one of these
    Screen Shot 2016-03-20 at 17.48.01.png
     
  22. Machines, Mar 20, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016

    Machines macrumors 6502

    Machines

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    Jan 23, 2015
    Location:
    Fox River Valley , Illinois
    #22
    Definitely , the Apple Store will try to convince you to buy a brand new computer . It's their primary job :D . I doubt they will encourage you to use an older product, even if it is best for your needs .
    --- Post Merged, Mar 20, 2016 ---
    The users that post here have some pretty strong opinions , Neil . The fellow detected you wanted to make an immediate purchase and since you expressed interest in the Cylinder , he thought you really wanted one . How many sellers of used Macs are there in Malaysia ? Even in my state of Illinois , with its millions of denizens , there's only a tiny handful of quality used Mac retailers .
     
  23. bigbadneil thread starter macrumors 6502

    bigbadneil

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    #23
    Its okay I am getting all the help I need on here...............I just need you to tell me in roughneck terms rather than IT terms :) :) :)
     
  24. h9826790, Mar 20, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016

    h9826790 macrumors 604

    h9826790

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2014
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    #24
    If you never upgrade anything by yourself, the stock high end 2012 Mac Pro is the 12 core 2.7GHz with HD5870.

    For Photoshop, it's performance is mainly determined by CPU single core speed, RAM size, and storage speed.

    For the kind of money that you willing to spend on a $11000 nMP.

    You can...

    1) Upgrade your current Mac Pro to 12 cores 3.46GHz, This is more or less the same speed as the 12 Core nMP, however, as the others point out, this is not the fastest Photoshop CPU. The 3.7 GHz Quad core nMP is the best choice indeed (assuming we only consider the Mac Pro line).

    2) Most of the mid to high end GPU (including the very top end TitanX). However, for Photoshop, a 7950 is more than enough. If you want something native to Mac Pro, there is a HD7950 Mac Edition selling at OWC. Which is about 3x price than a PC HD7950. Apart from it runs warmer and nosier than most of the PC HD 7950. If you want a better Mac 7950, go to MVC's website to buy one. Which is cheaper, and most likely works better. Anyway, only very few filter in Photoshop use the GPU, you don't need any top of the line GPU for that.

    3) 128G RAM, only your Mac Pro can do this, the nMP CANNOT, so, you better keep your Mac if you want to handle large Photoshop project.

    4) A PCIe SSD, SM951 is the no brainer, assuming money is not an issue for you (I am not saying that you are happy to waste your money, but just willing to pay for the best performance stuff). Go for the 4x 512G straight away, and there is a Amfeltec adaptor which can install up to 4 SM951 on a single adaptor. Than means you can make a 2T RAID 0 SSD array for your live project and scratch disk (around 6000MB/s), which is 24x faster than your current SSD. And again, the nMP cannot have this internal storage speed (and size).

    TBH, the above setting is way overkill for most Photoshop job, and it should work better (and cheaper) than the maxed out nMP. Also, you can just keep all your HDD inside your Mac, no need to touch them at all, and enjoy your 18T HDD + 2T super speed scratch disk + 256G boot up SSD.
     
  25. phrehdd macrumors 68040

    phrehdd

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2008
    #25
    I'll be as quick as I can here.

    If you get the new MP, you should reconsider the BTO for it. That is, you don't need a 12 core. It doesn't offer any additional speed and possibly may slow down work. An 8 core might be a better fit with as much RAM (memory) that you can afford). This would be a better fit for serious photo work (Photoshop etc.). Also consider fine tuning your application.

    As for your original Mac Pro 2012, there are so many options to bring about improvement.

    Items to consider -
    max out the RAM given how large your photo files are
    as mentioned, get a 2nd SSD card for scratch space
    consider RAID for non-SSD drives (make sure to include a back up in your schema)
    investigate potential upgrade for the video card (s)

    There seems to be confusion about CPU and cores with respect to photo editing. More does not necessarily mean better. There is a point of diminished returns. Photoshop seems to really thrive for complex work on 6-8 core setups and doesn't gain anything with 12 core (with most work) and at times actually is slower.
     

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