How to create enough jobs worldwide?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jnpy!$4g3cwk, Sep 4, 2011.

  1. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #1
    Apparently, when people voted for President Obama, they figured 1.5 years was long enough to turn the economy around. They were not happy when it took longer, and, by the poll numbers, they are even unhappier now, and, unhappy with the Republican Party as well. Apparently, unemployment has a lot to do with their unhappiness.

    Some people think maintaining a steady course is the best bet. Others think returning to a gold standard and abolishing virtual all government spending is the answer to every problem. Everybody has an opinion. But, what exactly is causing so much unemployment, and, what really can be done about it? And, will there ever be enough decently-paying jobs again for ordinary average and below-average people?

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2...nc.-Six-reasons-why-America-can-t-create-jobs

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_28/b4186048358596.htm

    I don't have the answer, but, I can say that history has shown time and again that long-term high unemployment is a dangerous political situation for any country.
     
  2. treestar macrumors 6502

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    Why does everyone think there can be jobs for everyone?
     
  3. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    Move to China, or the sub-continent. They seem to have jobs.
     
  4. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    Why should I care about creating jobs worldwide? We should concentrate on our own country and let respective governments worry about their own.
     
  5. treestar macrumors 6502

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    Umm, exactly? We've given them manufacturing work. It's us or them, and we've chosen them.
     
  6. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    Sorry, that ship has sailed.

    Corporate America, in a quest for shareholder profits, has sold you down the river.
     
  7. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    Though, I still wish someone could explain to me how Fonterra in NZ managed export FARMING to China?
     
  8. iJohnHenry, Sep 5, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2011

    iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    I would guess fertile land, but you would have to confirm that for me.
     
  9. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    New Zealand, Arid? Don't be silly.
     
  10. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    Whoops, sorry, mind fart.

    Fixed to fertile. :eek:
     
  11. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    Fonterra are exporting knowledge of dairy farming something the Chinese have no real history of,they are also setting up farms in China.I hope they count their fingers each time they shake hands with the Chinese because a few years down the line the Chinese will have more knowledge of dairy than them and they will have taken over diary farming in NZ.

    That being said Fonterra shows how successful a co-operative can be,the fact that the members are rich cow cockies doesn't negate the principle.
     
  12. jnpy!$4g3cwk thread starter macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    There will have to be, for three reasons:

    1) We live in an era where it is easy to export basic expertise, manufacturing jobs, and many service jobs, to lower-wage countries. So, we have to raise wages and productivity and living conditions worldwide now in order to raise our own wages, where ever we live.

    2) High unemployment is a public evil. The opposite of a public good. We have to lower unemployment in our respective countries as a matter of social policy.

    3) In our respective, mostly developed, countries, if we have low unemployment, people from high-unemployment countries will continue to find a way to move to those countries, regardless. The only thing that will stop this is draconian employer sanctions, and, that just won't happen, because the oligarchs don't like it.

    Chinese enterprises have learned how to scale manufacturing. Of course I don't agree with everything he says, but really, everyone should read this article by Andy Grove and understand how this works:

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_28/b4186048358596.htm

    Because, simply, it won't work. e.g. In the USA, whenever there is growth, lots of people come here, some illegally, but, many legally. People are finding ways to move worldwide to find work. Why don't they stay in their home countries and find work there? To an extent, it is healthy: e.g. Chinese engineers working in Silicon Valley, young Americans teaching English in China. Good for foreign relations, makes war less likely, etc. To the extent that whole communities are destroyed because there is no work, it is not so positive.

    See the Andy Grove article.

    At some point the oligarchs may have destroyed every large stable prosperous economy in the world. Where will they live? Probably on a small inaccessible island somewhere. New Zealand? Not likely. It is more likely to be an island where nastiness is the social norm.

    Not sure if you mean farming in China, or, farming in New Zealand. In any case, know-how knows no borders nowadays. We are all in the lifeboat together now, whether we want to be or not. (Anyone seen the Alfred Hitchcock movie "Lifeboat"?

    OT: An article on jobs and unemployment:

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2...nc.-Six-reasons-why-America-can-t-create-jobs


    PS:

    https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Oligarchy
     
  13. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #13
    Both, Fonterra is a major exporter to China and is also setting up ventures inside China.Chinese nationals in the mean time are increasingly looking at and where they've been allowed buying up farm land in NZ. I agree that know-how is much less restricted than in the past in spite of the frantic efforts of what's known as the IP lobby to restrict access to that knowledge.
     
  14. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    Yes, unless and until the Law of Diminishing Returns rises up to bite them in the ass.

    I won't be holding my breath, but I might cease breathing first, so it will no longer be my concern.

    :D
     
  15. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    So, what does that mean, exactly? Not trying to be snarky. I read obeygiant's post and agree; I think it is reasonable - if not necessary - to question the must-look-globally assumption of this thread. I can't create a job for someone in France any easier than I can provide a meal for someone in the Republic Of Congo. Same with Obama/Washington (Republican or Democrat). I question whether he/they or any US president can create (substantively create) even one US job.

    I read your post and it sounds like a motivational poster platitude. How does it apply to obeygiant's comment that you quoted?
     
  16. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    Because the cards are have already been dealt, with Global Trade initiatives.

    It will be painful for the U.S., to get the genie back in the bottle, even if the rabid Republicans agree to the effort.

    The sapping of "America's" strength will continue, as China and other 2nd World countries flex their manufacturing muscle.
     
  17. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    You have a gift - you truly do - for often being able to say a lot with only a little. Yes, sometimes less is more. But sometimes, less is less.

    • "cards have already been dealt"
    • "Global Trade initiatives"
    • "genie back in the bottle"
    • "sapping of strength"
    • "manufacturing muscle"

    Those.are.all.neat.phrases. They.all.sound.good.at.the.loud.bar. But how do they disprove obeygiant's comment? How can a US politician substantively create an American job, much less a global job?
     
  18. jnpy!$4g3cwk thread starter macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    There is a proven method that may not translate very well to the 21st Century. But, it does work, and has, apparently, since the Pharaohs. Raise taxes enough to pay every unemployed person rent money, plus food. Put the people to work on conservation and civic improvement projects. You know, Relief -- CCC and WPA stuff. Eventually private industry will start generating enough new jobs-- unfortunately, it may take ten years. We are only in year four, so, it may take another six years. It is a lot safer for everyone, and more satisfying for the workers, if they are physically tired every day and feel like they have done something constructive. I know, I'm sermonizing again. But, take pity on me -- so few people these days know any history.
     
  19. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    When Americans are prepared to work for $150/month they can have Rose jobs.
     
  20. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    In my mind's ear, I'm imagining Bill O'Reilly's scathing summation of how your method (designed to reward the nation's ne'er-do-wells) would push the country further down then the slippery slope towards socialism. Then in my mind's eye, I picture Bill's head exploding just before the feed cuts to a message from a "Talking Points Memo" corporate sponsor.
     
  21. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    I wasn't attempting too, for I agree with him.

    Unfortunately, the money has gone overseas, in search for cheaper labour, and the purchasing subsequently followed, with the lost of American jobs.

    This is not rocket science.

    And no, I have no answer for this dilemma, because you cannot turn back the clock. (There ya go, another catch phrase for your collection.)
     
  22. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    Gotcha. My mistake. I misread your post.
     
  23. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    Mmm, can't for Chinese dairy. Can't wait for the lead and arsenic laden diary products coming from cows whose growth hormones cause udder infections that get into the milk.

    Capitalism.
     
  24. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #24
    +1 Let's start punishing the corporations for punishing us for making a living wage.

    I disagree. We don't have to do anything but impose a tariff on everything that comes in equal to the difference between their wages and ours.

    Really, if you can't create a job, how do free market capitlists create jobs? It's the same principal. The only difference is the source of money. Either money pays for work, or it doesn't. Which is it? I will patiently await your response.
     
  25. Pachang macrumors regular

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    I think this is an interesting thread.
    Of course there is an infinite amount of "jobs". There are always things that need doing. There is always more things to invent, things to produce, things to make better.

    A paying job just means that one of those things is important enough to someone that they are willing to part with some amount of their property (usually money) to get it done.

    The way people are useful to one another is through capital, knowledge, time and effort.

    Knowledge is valuable, but knowledge of programming language in a world where there are no computers is fairly useless. You need a computer (capital) to bring the full value of that knowledge.

    People's knowledge combined with capital, their time and effort is what makes people useful to one another and is what creates "jobs".

    For a economy to have everyone employed who desires it, it must fully leverage the knowledge of its people via capital investment. It must also minimise the government's redirection of resources away from capital investment into it's many schemes and bureaucracies.

    In the US there has been capital consumption rather than capital investment over the past 10 years. The change in the capital structure has been dramatic, but people didn't notice because of the housing bubble. It has primarily been caused by the artifically low interest rates which encourage capital consumption (buying houses) rather than investment.

    TL;DR:
    Real interest rates + sound money + free markets = high employment.

    Artifical interest rates + fiat money + government intervention = capital consumption and capital leaving country = unemployment.
     

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