How to feel about Standish, MI's bid to house detainees

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mkrishnan, Aug 10, 2009.

  1. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #1
    For reference... here's a more recent article -- Standish is a relatively blighted town in Michigan that derives a significant portion of its economy from a max security prison that is being closed. Locals as well as state officials have been trying to avoid closing the facility by either converting it to house overflow inmates from CA (I have issues with this, too, but they're not my focus here) or to house Guantanamo detainees. Michigan is also my state of birth and I began living here again, after several years of absence, a month ago.

    I feel sympathetic that this town is blighted and that this is an important source of income and that these individuals working the prison stand to lose their jobs... I don't have any problems with the detainees being in Michigan, itself, either.

    But I still have not budged on the idea that, even with the new administration's improvements, this detention program is still not consistent with American values and is doubtfully consistent with domestic or international law. I still don't like the idea of classifying individuals too dangerous to be release or be tried by some internationally accepted means (either civilian or, less compellingly to me, military trials).

    So I'm left feeling liking our local and state officials are trading basic American values for a temporary, band-aid solution to their (serious) economic woes. I do think these things are temporary, too -- while prisons may be necessary at some level, they're not the answer to rebuilding the Michigan economy. And I really do mean basic American values -- this idea that people in this country should not be imprisoned without due process is one of the main issues that led to the Revolution.
     
  2. spaceboots06 macrumors 6502a

    spaceboots06

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Location:
    The Rotten Apple
    #2
    On the topic of it being a Supermax and detainees being sent there, I think it'd be a, for lack of a better word, fun experiment. People who are serving life sentences, I believe, wouldn't hesitate to try to harm suspected terrorists.
     
  3. mkrishnan thread starter Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #3
    I don't think it would be supermax prisoners and detainees at the same time. But they don't let these detainees mix with other people anyways, do they?
     
  4. spaceboots06 macrumors 6502a

    spaceboots06

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Location:
    The Rotten Apple
    #4
    As of right now, no. Imagine if they did decide to keep them in the same quarters. From all of the Nat Geo I've watched, it seems as if there isn't even enough space to have different quarters for different kinds of criminals.
     
  5. bc008 macrumors 68000

    bc008

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Location:
    Michigan
    #5
    As a person that lives less than 30 minutes from the Standish facility, I find the whole situation bittersweet. The place employs a lot of people, including some of my friends parents. I want them to keep their jobs, but who wants terrorists living so close to your own home?
     
  6. mkrishnan thread starter Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #6
    Aside from the whole question of whether there's even a legal justification for this kind of detention, do you honestly feel like you would be at risk from their presence? What's the history of terrorists plotting acts of terrorism from inside even conventional prisons? In those cases that I can think of, the attack was not targeted at the prison locale per se (e.g. some of the WTC stuff). With the way detainees are held, I don't see that they're particularly a threat.
     
  7. bc008 macrumors 68000

    bc008

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Location:
    Michigan
    #7
    I know you are right. What is the difference between a "home grown" murderer or a terrorist? Not much really.. Just the idea of it keeps me on edge a bit. Sort of hard to explain. If anything it might bring more law officials in to the area and we might finally be able to sell our house and move! (I just remembered that thread! I wish we would have sold loooong ago..)
     
  8. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Hartford, CT
    #8
    How are these men any different from the regular murderers, rapists, and drug offenders that are regularly housed? Has the 8 years of fear really made our public so paranoid by the buzzword terrorist?
     
  9. Shivetya macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    #9
    Actually I think the detainee program is a perfect example of our values. They also show the quandary we face. See, in this country we still go out of our way not to actually kill our enemy, let alone subject them to the laws or people of the country from which they were extradited.

    So we end up keeping them around because we cannot find anything to do with them once we got them. Do we return them to their declared home countries to face whatever fortune befalls them or have them return to killing ours or other people? Or do we hold them indefinitely, depriving them of freedom but possibly keeping them alive longer than they would have their own.

    The problem a society gets as it doubts itself is that it wants to protect everyone from everything and in the end everyone loses freedom because of it. We have gone past the recognition that some people are too dangerous to have in any society. It will take a horrendous action on their part to change that and its most unfortunate that action must happen let alone what many will do when it does.
     
  10. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #10
    No one is really afraid, it just sounds good to say you don't want terrorists in your backyard.
     
  11. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Hartford, CT
    #11
    Yea, they hold no actual risk while detained so why the hell would anyone oppose this other than just the extremely fearful and ignorant?
     
  12. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #12
    Its a tactical move, why not. Dems are going to drop terrorists in your back yard, vote them out next election.
     
  13. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Hartford, CT
    #13
    Ah, you actually support fear tactics being used politically, gotcha.
     
  14. stevegmu macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2008
    Location:
    A stone's throw from the White House.
    #14
    Michigan does seem to be a good state to house terrorists. From what I have seen of Arab Day in Dearborn, I imagine they will receive a hero's welcome. Seems a waste to spend $millions refurbishing an old facility, when there are modern facilities in the paradise that is GTMO. Either way, as long as they don't bring them to Alexandria.
     

Share This Page