How were/are aboriginals, buddhists, and christians discriminated?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaquib, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. aaquib macrumors 65816

    aaquib

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    #1
    I know this is kind of different, but I've been looking for answers online and cannot find any. I (partly) need this for school, but I'm also interested in knowing for myself.

    Question: How were aboriginals discriminated based on their faith, and how does that compare to the discrimination faced by Buddhists and Christians, also because of their faiths?
     
  2. SteveMobs macrumors 6502

    SteveMobs

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    #3
    Well aboriginals are quite different from the other two. They are the indigenous people of Australia. When Great Britain began to colonize Australia, they were kind of pushed aside, which seems to be a recurring element of colonization and imperialism. Buddhists, I don't know of anything specifically where they have been discriminated against but something with the Chinese comes to mind. Christians, they usually do the discriminating. They fought a lot throughout history under the idea of Manifest Destiny (aka God says it's theirs for the taking)

    There's a lot more to be told about these groups throughout history, this is just off of the top of my head.
     
  3. snberk103 macrumors 603

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    #4
    When you say "aboriginals" - where specifically are you asking about? The previous poster thought you were asking about Australia, but since "Aboriginal" can mean people anywhere perhaps they thought you meant "Aborigine". Aboriginal experiences have been different around the world. Also do a search on "First Nations" and "First Peoples".

    Good Luck.

    Just to add.... I don't think "Faith" was why Aboriginals were discriminated against. I think its because they were seen as culturally backward, and has something the colonizers wanted..... land.
     
  4. LeahM macrumors 6502a

    LeahM

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    #5
    If you were talking about North American Aboriginals I would suggest this, may not be what your looking for but its good to know/may help you a bit.
     
  5. mysterytramp macrumors 65816

    mysterytramp

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    #6
    I'm not sure history can adequately measure the times Christians were the source and the target of discrimination to figure out which constitutes the usual. Yes, some rotten things were done in the name of Christ. Likewise, some rotten things were done to people who followed his teachings. Two off the top of my head: the Romans who fed Christians to the lions, and more recently, the harassment against Christians in Sudan.

    mt
     
  6. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #7
    I disagree. Since Emperor Constantine, Christianity has been at the center of power for a great many nations and therefore often benefited from those nations' rising and falling power. Obviously, individual Christian groups have been discriminated against, and since Christianity split through various schisms, this has become more complex. But, at the history we're currently at, the symbol of the Cross has been the standard of powerful and imperial nations. Buddhism has never attained much political power, Islam did for a few centuries, but has currently been bowed, and Hinduism and the various forms of Animism have often been subject to Christian rulers.

    Now, this is a broad-scope view Christianity has vacillated between beneficial and inimical, but I'd argue that Christianity has so often been the religion of the "winners" that you can argue overall that Christianity as seen less discrimination.
    On the individual level, this is completely different.
     
  7. mysterytramp macrumors 65816

    mysterytramp

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    #8
    Although what you say is correct, I'd argue you're making two mistakes. One, your view of history is Euro-centric. For example, what was the Christian experience in Persia and the nations to the east, or in Egypt after the Pharaohs?

    And two, you're assuming that the surviving records over the course of 1400 or 1500 years are adequate.

    I'm not trying to paint Christians as victims of history; I'm just not sure the phrase "Christians, they usually do the discriminating" can be defended. (emphasis mine) Christ's teachings spread much further than the Roman Empire, in cultures where either inadequate study or lack of original documentation provide us much chance to declare what was "usual."

    mt
     
  8. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #9
    Well, by the time Christians had wander into view, the Pharaohs were effectively gone. As for Persia and the Mid-East, Christians were generally treated fairly well. Once Islam became ascendent, Christians were considered "people of the book" and thus had to pay a tax, but weren't subject to the same kinds of discrimination that Hindus were. In Japan, Portuguese missionaries were allowed to bring Christianity to the country and were also generally tolerated.

    I touched on that in my post and above. Christians have to accept that as a religion they've held the sword more often than not. Obviously, there are individual groups throughout, but the Australian and American stories are of Christians moving into an area and forcing the local animists and polytheists to submit to their rule and convert. The same is true throughout much of Africa as well.
    Small conclaves of Christians have certainly been discriminated against, but I think that's a minority in comparison, especially in the modern-era.
     
  9. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #10
    I'd hardly call dumping our prisoners there colonisation.
     
  10. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #11
    Ah, but you did stick in a flag.
     
  11. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #12
    That's what she said.


    Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
     
  12. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #13
    Indeed.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #14
    I feel amongst friends :D!
     
  14. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #15
    This is one of the broadest, most inaccurate, unsupportable--and dare I say discriminating--statements I've ever heard. I don't even know where to begin. First of all, your point of view is very euro-/modern-centric and doesn't take into account most of history. You say Christians were "usually" on top. Do you forget that over 1000 years ago, all of Europe was almost subjugated to Muslim powers? That's over half the entire existence of Christianity that it wasn't the dominant power on the globe. Second of all, "Manifest Destiny" was an idea specific to the US and had nothing to do with religion. In fact, half of Mexico (a Catholic, i.e. Christian, nation) was taken by the US to achieve "Manifest Destiny." Third of all, I can name numerous examples of Christian persecution from the obvious Romans to the modern-day harassing of Muslims for helping pass Prop. 8 in California (although some would argue that they aren't technically Christian). Even in your defense of Muslim treatment of Christians you forget the fact that they were also kidnapped and forced to become Muslim guards of the Sultan, not to mention the modern-day persecution of Christians in Arab lands.
     
  15. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #16
    Europe was certainly threatened by Muslim powers, but I think you're history is misleading. First, while Christianity existed from 32 (C.E.) to 313 under Roman persecution, once Constantine issued the Edict of Milan, the religion transitioned to the de facto religion of the Roman Empire, remaining as such until the destruction of the western half of the Empire in 476 (or 480) and the eastern empire in 1476. For more than a hundred years, Christianity was one of the powers of the world. It's also worth noting that the conquering Osrogoths immediately took on the mantle of the Empire including conversion to Christianity.

    Islam, created in 632, moved quickly and overtook the Gothic peoples in the Iberian peninsula in 710, finally succeeding in capturing most of modern Spain. It took a series of wars to "retake" the land, ending in 1492 with the Christian capture of Granada. In the east, it took the Ottoman to reach the gates of Vienna in 1529 and of course, there was the sack of Constantinople in 1476. Although, Muslims had some successes against the Byzantines (notably in Anatolia), they ultimately couldn't cross the Bosporus. Besides these incursions, Europe remained relatively free of Islamic conquests. Of course, the European Christians did not return the favor, launching the earlier mentioned Reconquista in Spain and the various Crusades starting as far back as 1029 and ended with the disaster of the Ninth crusade which ultimately led to the slaughter or enslavement of Christians in the levant.

    The point is, Europe was never significantly invaded by the various Islamic empires. Of course, Europeans were also held at bay, until the modern-era.
     
  16. mysterytramp macrumors 65816

    mysterytramp

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    #17
    Hulugu, you have shown mad scholarship skills. Please provide:

    -- a table of hate crimes, sorted by religion of the victim, from the crucifixion to the present?
    -- maps of Constantinople and other major cities showing how redlining of Christian neighborhoods ended after Constantine issued the Edict of Milan?
    -- numerical studies that show how Christian soldiers advanced in the ranks of the Roman Legion after the Edict of Milan (please include supporting anecdotes)?

    OK, I'm being an idiot, but my point is this is the kind of data that's needed to prove a statement like: "Christians, they usually do the discriminating." This information doesn't exist and it's impossible to state which ethnic group showed more bias than others during a period when information is scarce.

    mt
     
  17. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    #18
    Yes, Hulugu's approach to defining Christianity is very Euro-centric, leaving out the Coptic church in Africa, as well as much of the early Christian doctrine that was left out by Constantine's butchering of the faith.

    Also, Islam had great power in 615 a.d. when it was first introduced to North Africa. Ethiopia being one of the continent's most powerful nations, having four of the worlds major religions behind it's border, and having never succumbed to the rampaging European countries during the time.

    There's no way one can say Christianity is on the forefront of oppression. The people that may be flying the flag, the Europeans during that time period that had other ideals that weren't in tune with their said Savior, but not the religion itself.

    And yes, the religion is made of the people. Hence the reason many people decided to leave not only the form of religion, but the country (Martin Luther) and continent (pilgrims) as well.

    p.s. sorry for going off topic.
     
  18. Queso macrumors G4

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    #19
    An event that may well have never occurred had the Christian crusaders not sacked Constantinople themselves in 1204, carrying away much of its wealth and partitioning the Eastern Empire into several smaller weakened states. Constantinople may even have held the Ottoman Turks from ever entering Europe had the crusades left it well alone.
     
  19. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #20
    In a general sense, if we were to pick a person from the last 2,000 years and ask if they were discriminated because of their religion and who did it, I think you'd see an average that tends towards Christians. That's not to say that other religious groups were lambs, even the Buddhists and the animists got their own shots in, but Christianity has had a multitude of sins committed in its name.

    Well, yes, I did skim over North and South America too, but in that I think you'll find Christianity was pretty much the standard under which entire cultures were wiped out. Spend some time talking with Dine (Navajos) about the Indian Schools, for example.

    Well, it took the Mongols coming from the east to sack Baghdad as well. The Christians never invaded much of the Islamic kingdoms, but they should get points for trying.

    Of course, people don't often follow religious teachings, but that's one of the ways in which we define groups, especially historical ones. For instance, using the same argument, it wasn't the Romans who crucified Jesus, but just a few soldiers and the local government.

    I've been careful to say that I only mean this in the general sense and I haven't ignored the Christian experience in China or dozens of other places. There's no singular bad guy, rather Christians as a group have been lucky and successful and therefore have ended up on top. Any other group, given the same circumstances, would have done the same thing.
     
  20. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    #21
    I can agree with that 100%. Any other group or race I might add.
     
  21. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #22
    Wait, what? First, you say Muslims had some successes against the Byzantines, but couldn't cross the Bosporus, but also say that the Ottomans reached Vienna. Since when are the Ottomans not Muslim? A Muslim state ruled pretty much the entire Balkans up until the 20th century. How is that not "relatively free of Islamic conquests?"

    And don't underestimate the Muslim presence in Spain. If it weren't for the Battle of Tours, all of France could have fallen to the Islamic conquests. Coupled with the Siege of Vienna, had events played out only slightly differently, all of Europe could have been conquered by Muslims.

    Plus, I think you overestimate European power. Until at least 1300, Europe was completely backwater, and even if it were completely Christian (which it wasn't), it certainly wasn't a "world power." Heck, the Mongols would have overrun all of Europe if it weren't for the forests there. And I hardly think that having forests qualifies a region or people as a "world power."
     
  22. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #23
    Sorry, I could have written that better. Until the creation of Istanbul, the Muslim armies were held at bay, but even after the conquest, Islam didn't push into western Europe and were held to the edges, for the most part. Muslims didn't move into Greece, Italy, Germany, France, etc.

    You're right, I'd argue that most of the world is lucky that Genghis managed to fall off his horse. Remember, I'm not making the argument that the Christians (Europeans) were better or smarter, they were lucky. Circumstances fell in their favor.
     
  23. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #24
    I guess I just don't understand how Christians can be oppressing people for over a thousand years when they mostly keep to Europe and are subject to the whims and horse-riding abilities of other invading nations.
     
  24. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #25
    Well, the time scale of "over a thousand years" wasn't mine, except when I remarked that "Since Emperor Constantine, Christianity has been at the center of power for a great many nations and therefore often benefited from those nations' rising and falling power."
    I thought that was sufficiently vague enough to account that from 313 until the modern-era—maybe Napoleon's invasion of Alexandria in 1798—Christianity's power waxed and waned in the Near-East and Far-East. But, what about the post-Columbian reality in South America? Or North America? Or Australia?
     

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