how would you grade apple's lineup?

Discussion in 'Community' started by jefhatfield, Apr 16, 2003.

  1. jefhatfield Retired


    Jul 9, 2000
    if i had to give apple inc a grade for products, service, and frequency of new products, i would give them a "B" overall

    by product, bringing price and features together:

    12 inch ibook CD - B
    12 inch ibook combo - A
    14 inch ibook - C

    tibook - B
    12 inch powerbook - A
    17 inch powerbook - B

    emac - B

    crt imac - C

    15 inch imac - B
    17 inch imac - A

    entry ipod - A
    bigger ipods - B

    server - never seen one

    jaguar - B

    final cut pro - never seen it

    appleworks - B for other high tech companies,

    i would give sony and nokia an A,
    adobe, macromedia, and toshiba a B,
    hp-compaq, dell, microsoft, cisco, and sun a C,
    and sbc/pacbell, e-machines, motorola, and ibm a D

    and sometimes, some of the D companies are a big fat F as is microsoft from time to time;)
  2. jefhatfield thread starter Retired


    Jul 9, 2000
    ok, i get it!!

    nobody likes this post because it's not cute...he he

    apple gets 4 little mice out of a possible 5 least for this quarter

    give me a 970, apple...and i will give you that 5th mouse:D
  3. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Jun 25, 2002
    Gone but not forgotten.
    Apple deserves a lot of credit for doing the best with what they have. The machines seem well designed and perform well for what they are.

    In the real world, comparison is inevitable. Design is great, execution important, but performance says a lot and there's not a lot of that at home at Apple. Battery life is the one thing that saves their laptop sales. You can't take a machine comparable to a PowerBook and edit video in the middle of nowhere on anything else for much more than minimal time. The PPC's lack of speed and economy have paid off.

    Quality B
    Design A
    Desktop value D
    Laptop value B
    Operating Systems B
    Other software A
    Performance is too low to rate.
    Developer relations are too low to rate.
    Arrogance is too high to rate.
  4. jefhatfield thread starter Retired


    Jul 9, 2000
    wow, thanks...someone answered this lonely thread;)

    who would you give an A to for quality?
  5. Weirdwolf macrumors newbie

    Feb 22, 2003
    Richmond, KY
    Hmmm... interesting topic...

    Quality/Durability: A
    Usefulness: A
    Availability: D
    User-friendliness: B
    Software: B
    Software availability: D

    To me, Apple's biggest problem is that they are still too pricey, and not widely available. In my area, there is only ONE store that carries Apple products (CPUs or otherwise) within a 150mile radisu of where I live and that's CompUSA, fortunately only 30 miles from here. They are also the only Apple certified repair center around here too. Apple's not done well at all in the PR department. Everytime someone asks me what kind of computer I own, I say with pride "a Mac", but it disappoints me when they return a look of horror to me. I generally disregard this 'look' anyway, for many people I have met that 'hate' Macs are also very ignorant of them and 'hate' them based on ignorance. A few that I have asked why they hate Macs state "You can't do anything with a Mac" to which I reply "Well, what are you trying to do", they answer and I'll fortify the fact you can do it--maybe not in the same way as on a PC but you can. How did Apple get to have such a poor standing in the public's eye? Well, I'm sure there are many reasons, but a few friends of mine that do like Macs but won't get one state the reason as to why they won't for the simple reason that 'why would they want to spend $1300 on a Mac when they can get an eMachine at Wal*Mart for $500, printer included that does all they really need it to do?'. Sure you can get an eMac now for around 700 bones, but it's notwithstanding that while Apple does have a quality machine (IMO) they simple can't, or refuse, to compete with PCs in price. People won't buy Macs because they're too pricey to take the risk on because they're unfamiliar with the OS. It's why I think the "Switch" commercials from Apple were such a failure (that, and they were stupid for the most part), because the price of a Mac does not entice someone to 'take that leap of faith' that it requires from a longtime PC user. Much of the population (at least around me) simply can't afford a Mac and give 'em a whirl. Heck, I barely am able to pay for this middle model iMac I'm on now, let alone one that can make DVDs like I want. I work my butt off every day, and still live paycheck to paycheck. I love Macs to death, wouldn't dream of wanting a PC. However, put both of those statements together and it doesn't necessarily work out. :(
  6. DakotaGuy macrumors 68040


    Jan 14, 2002
    South Dakota, USA
    Why would you give IBM a D? They seem to be making excellent progress on the PPC970.
  7. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Jun 25, 2002
    Gone but not forgotten.
    IBM's big machine people, but then, you pay for that quality with big numbers.
  8. Kwyjibo macrumors 68040


    Nov 5, 2002
    i woudl give appleworks a d or F personally but thats just me and my lvoe of familiairty. hmm you can't really grade the 20gb ipod properly unless you lvoe music and have aprrox 15 GBs so far all in the size of a card of decks so i give that an A. i woudl also grade the all white iBook down to a c or D they just don't seem right to me.
  9. jefhatfield thread starter Retired


    Jul 9, 2000
    ibm needs to lower prices, for one...and...

    as for ibm the company that gives us home based's really a bummer that they took their stuff off the retail shelves

    and while some of their laptop models are great, their prices have not kept in pace with dell and hp/ those other two pc makers adopt new technologies faster for their home computing gear

    the 970 is great...then where is it? and why is apple still with motorola?

    there are a few things that can happen then i will up ibm's grade

    when G4 first came out, i would have given motorola an A, but since their pace has been somewhat slow over the years, they are not an A company in my eyes
  10. shadowfax macrumors 603


    Sep 6, 2002
    Houston, TX
    why a B for OS X.2? it seems to me that it's at least an A-. i don't think you guys have spent enough time around other operating systems, guys :p
  11. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Jun 25, 2002
    Gone but not forgotten.
    I was being generous too.

    Let's see. I've dealt with various machines since the early 1980s. Yes, I've spent enough time around other operating systems.

    Mac OS X is pretty. It mostly works. I don't have to set memory allocations.

    Even without the 3 kernel panics I've had in the last 3 weeks, it's not so great.

    From 10.2 to 10.2.3, I couldn't use my Epson SC900. When 10.2.4 arrived, my printer magically worked again with no changes from Epson.

    My MicroTech dual card reader still doesn't work with 10.2.x even after a new driver.

    Apple has a lot of plans and it's doing better than IBM did with OS/2, but hardware support is still problematic.

    I really like it, but after 3 years, I'm a little impatient for things to get going.
  12. shadowfax macrumors 603


    Sep 6, 2002
    Houston, TX
    you know, when i ran XDarwin and KDE from unstable, my system crashed like all hell. since then, i have been getting 3-4 week uptimes, and at the end of those, it never crashes. one time my DVD player was acting slightly funny, and last time it was because my power supply went to hell... i've been really impressed with their hardware support. i mean, be realistic, i think. they try to handle things their best, and i think it's good enough. i don't expect them to be microsoft.

    what i was saying about looking around at OSes, is look around at what's available currently. OS X, i think, is the best. that's why it deserves an A. anyone who wants to give the best a B seems a bit fastidious to me.
  13. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Jun 25, 2002
    Gone but not forgotten.
    Fastidious isn't the worst thing I've been called. :D

    Yes, if you look at Mac OS X in the light of WinXP, it looks somewhat better. Compared to BeOS, it looks pretty bad, except for applications available.

    Apple has a long way to go.
  14. Computer_Phreak macrumors 6502

    Jul 15, 2002
    15 inch LDC iMac - B+
    12 inch ibook ($999) - C-
    iPod - A
    OS X - A-

    I liked my iMac, but it was a tad slow and had some quirks about it.

    The ibook i have now is unbearably slow with more than one application open.

    The iPod is kickass... but needs better/opensource firmware.

    OS X doesn't have much going for it right now. Its pretty, and its interface is intuitive, but hardware support and little problems make it less of a great product. Its slow. Stability really isn't an issue anymore, since OS X, XP, and Linux are all about as stable (I'm talking about the OS, not programs). Usually only hardware failure will bring them down.

    I think that Mac OS X could be hands-down the best OS out there if it could focus on:
    1. Hardware and driver support.
    2. Native Cocoa-like C++ language.
    3. Journaling FS / Speedier
    4. Fix of little bugs, inconsistencies, and errors.
  15. MacFan25 macrumors 68000


    Jan 5, 2003
    Here's my opinion:

    iBook 12" - A
    iBook 14" - B

    PowerBook 12" - A
    PowerBook 15" - B
    PowerBook 17" - B+

    LCD iMac 15" - A
    LCD iMac 17" - A

    PowerMac - A

    eMac - B+

    iPod - A+

    Apple's Design - A+

    Apple's Innovation - A+

    The iBook 12", I think is a great buy, however, I think that the 14" is not. The 12" PowerBook is an awesome little computer. That's why I gave it an A. The 15" PowerBook needs to be updated. This is why I gave it a B. I didn't give an A to the 17" PowerBook, because, I think that for how expensive it is, it should have a faster processor. I gave an A to the LCD iMacs, because they are nice computers, and because of the great design. PowerMac, I gave an A, because it is a fast, great computer. I gave a B+ to the eMac, because of the display issues. The iPod, I gave an A+. I think that it is a great MP3 player. It sets the standard for MP3 players. It is a bit pricey, but I think that it is a great value. I gave an A+ to Apple's design, and innovation, because the designing of all the Apple products is by far the best in the computer industry. Apple is definitley the most innovative computer company, also.

    Now, I will stop my ranting. :D
  16. trebblekicked macrumors 6502a


    Dec 30, 2002
    Chicago, IL, USA
  17. trebblekicked macrumors 6502a


    Dec 30, 2002
    Chicago, IL, USA
    ibook 12- b+
    ibook 14- c-

    imac 15- b+
    imac 17- a-

    emac- b

    alubook 12- a
    tibook 15- a
    alubook 17- a

    pm dualies- b-
    pm entry- c-

    sxerve/raid- ?

    fcp- a+
    dvdsp2- a-
    shake- ?
    os x- a-
  18. shadowfax macrumors 603


    Sep 6, 2002
    Houston, TX
    i take a pretty weighty issue with this. i disagree that the 12 inch powerbook is that great of a deal. it's 1800$, and in many ways is not much more powerfull than the 12 inch iBook that retails for like 1300$... that's a 500$ difference, and many would argue that the performance is not 500$ greater. now, you gave that an A... the 15 inch powerbook probably does need to be updated... but that doesn't mean it deserves a B. it's a great performer, and i think very much worth the 2300$ you'll have to drop to get one now. i think it deserves at least a B+ if not an A-. i don't have any issue with your rating of the 17 inch.
  19. trebblekicked macrumors 6502a


    Dec 30, 2002
    Chicago, IL, USA
    i agree with shadowfax on the tibook. it's the perfect inbetween. the size is right, the price is right. the only things missing (AE, backlit keyboard, BT, FW800) are either of negotiable importance or available as accessories. You can't buy a better $2500.00 laptop than a tibook.

    PS- does anyone remember the prices on tibooks pre-november? they were sickeningly high! i think the last i saw for the top of the line 800mhz was $3800.00. i mean, DAMN!
  20. rainman::|:| macrumors 603


    Feb 2, 2002
    well for the OS and (most) other software, A. OS X itself gets an A+, if we're grading on a curve anyway... it's not the best an OS *could* be, but it's far better than anything else on the market... probably will be for some time...

    as for hardware... D, D+. that's only because of speed limitations, too. I realize it's out of Apple's control, but all the bells and whistles in the world can't make up for a GHz+ speed difference.

    I still think the price is right tho. Apple is a luxury or high-end item. Should be priced accordingly. Plus, despite the speed issue, their hardware is very well designed... and friggin' cool...

  21. trebblekicked macrumors 6502a


    Dec 30, 2002
    Chicago, IL, USA
    i love os x. don't get me wrong. but i can't give it an A+ until it fixes all the Twain scanner problems. i know epson has a responsibility there, too, but for a three year old scanner to not work by the 2.5 revision of x is kind of ridiculous (sp?)
  22. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Jun 25, 2002
    Gone but not forgotten.
    Cocoa isn't a language--it's an application framework. There is an Apple hack so you can get to Cocoa from C++ by learning a little Objective-C, which is called Objective-C++.
  23. jefhatfield thread starter Retired


    Jul 9, 2000
    oh, now we are getting plus and minus grades...he he

    when i was in high school, they used to give grades like C+ to make someone not feel so bad because they actually got a C- or a 71 or something

    but now that i have been taking college courses for 24 years now...yes, i am hooked...i only see A, B, C, D, and F...kind of if you get an 89, that is a B and you know you missed an A by one point....but professors tend not to bend as easily as my high school teachers did

    and extra credit is not seen that much on a college campus and there is no such thing as a GPA over 4.0

    i did spend a couple of years at another, private and expensive college and they did the plus minus thing to make you feel good...they better, i paid a lot of money per class...but college in general is harder than high school and you get one of five grades

    and in grad school, there are three grades...A, B, and "take the class over again"...there are no Cs, Ds, or Fs in grad school....if you get a bad grade like a C, it might as well be an F, and chances are you can't skirt around it and take an easier class next have to tackle the demon and get an A or B

    and when you finish your master' get to the next level and go for PhD school, you have to have a 3.5 GPA average to usually get in...that means that all Bs and some As won't cut it

    i hope i didn't scare off you high school students from college and grad school...when you get there, you will be more than ready to handle it

    and again apple gets a B, not B+;)
  24. tazo macrumors 68040


    Apr 6, 2003
    Pacific Northwest, Seattle, WA actually
    Re: how would you grade apple's lineup?

    dont knock emachines :mad:
  25. jefhatfield thread starter Retired


    Jul 9, 2000
    when i first saw emachines, with their underpowered power supplies in 99, i would have given the company an F

    maybe i was being hard on them, i will give them a C

    but not a B where i put apple inc

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