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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Mar 5, 2013.
Rumor coming from Bloomberg.
I just got the CNN push notification.
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Disclaimer... I do feel he was a good president in certain aspects. I had a Venezuelan classmate. He told me about the programs the Venezuelan people enjoyed. Great benefits for the populace regardless of social standing, but benefiting most to the poor.
Yes, I'm just following this story on the BBC, and checked in here, with a view to starting a thread on the topic, but saw that you had beaten me to it.
Regardless of one's opinion of his politics, one cannot deny his charisma and importance in the wider Central & Southern American area, and the (much needed and long overdue) reforms he introduced.
Soi-disant, slightly nostalgic, idealistic, old soft lefties such as myself were delighted when he was first elected to office, but, in common with the trajectory of Nicaragua's Daniel Ortega, the gleaming bright sheen he sported when first elected became more than a bit tarnished over time.......sigh.
Dead at 58 from cancer.
I have to say. He was an independent thinker. that's for sure.
Oh, quit the BS you all !! Let's call things by their name: he was a softcore dictator, and he made sure his oligarchy profited from his power. I'm glad he's not in charge anymore, but I'm afraid those who were waiting for their turn are worse.
When he first came to power, Hugo Chavez represented the triumph of hope, for in his person he embodied the expression of the belief that things could be and might be better, that national wealth might be used to the benefit of the nation as a whole (rather than merely to improve the lives of the wealthy elites) and, yes, he represented the aspirations of the poor, and above all, the indigenous peoples.
And yes, he was better (for a while, at least) than what preceded him.....and what is likely to succeed him.
The tragedy is that many of those hopes invested in him were not realised (but some were). Personally, I, for one, regret his passing because I remember the genuine joy and high hopes which greeted his early period in office and power.
He was better than those before him, but his rampant anti-Americanism was always unwelcome
He was the puppet....
I'm not debating that, in saying its good to have him out of the way. Given the history, with him in charge there was no chance for atonement.
Don't think so.
Pentagon Confirms David Delmonico, U.S. Attaché Expelled From Venezuela, En Route Back To Washington.
What ever is that supposed to mean?
The us could never have normal relations with Venezuela with Chavez there. Now that he's dead, there exists an opportunity for the US to atone for its past.
Is that more clear?
The United States has exterminated and committed genocide on more Native Americans than people that Hitler and Stalin killed combined.
Well, he certainly helped many more people obtain better living conditions, more than our government wanted him to anyway...
Our PR campaigns about Chavez and the state of his country are nakedly pathetic.
A leader that helped his country step it up a bit ( More than a bit) , dealing with education, health, poverty , inequality and colonialism , the numbers say he did a pretty good job
seems like the People of Venezuela are happy with him, who are we to say who should govern them and who shouldn't ....
A) Rule by the oil companies and their oligarchy
B) Rule by Hugo Chavez
Hmm. Are there any other choices?
seems you'll have to do better than that;
New York Review of Books
even just going with the lower 11 million and six million, that totals more than your 12 million
of course those figures are considered low according to many historians.....here's a source that lists in detail many more deaths.
Depending on who you count, Hitler's total seems to be more like 15 million and Stalin more like 20 million.....and those still fairly conservative figures according to many of the sources cited
Grim accounting. But, it makes no sense to me to count deaths in North America of people who never saw a white man by means of diseases hardly understood. The article cited previously summarizes pretty well:
As for Hitler versus Stalin, it seems odd to leave out Mao, who ordered the deaths of somewhere between 3 and 11 Million, with an additional 20-46 Million dead in famines, through a combination of malice and incompetence. The records are so poor compared to Hitler and Stalin, but, even the lower, official, estimates put Mao roughly on par with Stalin. I wonder if China will ever permit an accurate reckoning. The monuments to Hitler and Stalin have been dumped on the rubbish heap or melted down, while China still displays numerous Mao icons for the world to see.