Hypocrisy

swanny

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 12, 2004
135
0
Alberta
It is a little to late for about 150,000 people or more to be
finally throwing money, though welcome, at the problem and
problems of the disparity of the human condition.
We can now poignantly see ourselves for our global
deficiencies and hypocrisy towards our fellow humans
and the well touted but unpracticed religious golden rule.
If this is what it takes to move us to care for those less
fortunate than us then it does not bode well for our future
and yet now it seems the sad truth is the best we can do,
is throw money after the fact, as if money can make up for the laxity of
the mutual responsibility we should and must have towards
the health and well being of one and other.
The damage is done though folks, so let us eat our humble pie
and admit and accept our shallowness, vanity and unconscious
hypocrisy and learn and pray that we can evolve, change and do better
the next time when G O D or nature takes us to task.


Alfred Jonas
Red Deer
Canada
 

DavidLeblond

macrumors 68020
Jan 6, 2004
2,198
286
Raleigh, NC
Shame on me for donating money to the Red Cross? Huh?

Did you even read what you posted? It makes no sense. I'm guessing you are talking about the tidal wave... there is nothing, absolutely nothing that could have been done to prevent that. But it happened and now people are donating the much-needed money to help.

What is it you think we should have done? What should we be doing? What do you think the word "hypocrisy" means? Finally, what are you doing that makes you better than everyone else?
 

dotnina

macrumors 6502a
Aug 19, 2004
856
0
Sorry, but what is the point of all this, man? You've recently started five threads that have ended up getting tossed into the political forums ... where you don't have posting priviledges.

You can't post in the political forums until you're a "macrumors regular." Work on contributing to other forums on Macrumors before sharing your personal philosophies with us.
 

zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,388
7
toronto
DavidLeblond said:
there is nothing, absolutely nothing that could have been done to prevent that.
not to prevent it, no. but there are warning systems installed off the coasts of richer nations. the US has such a system on its west coast, according to the ABC News (or was it 60 Minutes?) story i saw. yearly budget for running the system: $4 million.

that's certainly a low enough cost to install such systems all around the world.
 

musicpyrite

macrumors 68000
Jan 6, 2004
1,639
0
Cape Cod
zimv20 said:
not to prevent it, no. but there are warning systems installed off the coasts of richer nations. the US has such a system on its west coast, according to the ABC News (or was it 60 Minutes?) story i saw. yearly budget for running the system: $4 million.

that's certainly a low enough cost to install such systems all around the world.
$4 million is the cost of running the system for the United States. That doesn't include the cost of building it. And don't forget that $4 million a year is quite a large amount of money when we're talking about poor nations.

I don't want to get into an argument or anything, but if India/Sri Lanka/etc. had the money to do it, I don't see any reason why the wouldn't.
 

zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,388
7
toronto
musicpyrite said:
$4 million is the cost of running the system for the United States. That doesn't include the cost of building it. And don't forget that $4 million a year is quite a large amount of money when we're talking about poor nations.

I don't want to get into an argument or anything, but if India/Sri Lanka/etc. had the money to do it, I don't see any reason why the wouldn't.
i'm saying that the richer nations should pay for it. i wonder how many lives would have been saved w/ even 5 minutes of warning.
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,915
1,466
Palookaville
Inexpensive though they may be, the big problem with warning systems is that a large percentage of the warnings are false. Consequently, over time, the warnings become frequently ignored and the systems themselves abandoned.
 

zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,388
7
toronto
IJ Reilly said:
Inexpensive though they may be, the big problem with warning systems is that a large percentage of the warnings are false. Consequently, over time, the warnings become frequently ignored and the systems themselves abandoned.
yeah, you've said that like a thousand times now. sheesh. i'm not going to listen to you anymore.

:)
 

skunk

macrumors G4
Jun 29, 2002
11,745
4,004
Republic of Ukistan
musicpyrite said:
I don't want to get into an argument or anything, but if India/Sri Lanka/etc. had the money to do it, I don't see any reason why the wouldn't.
I'm sure they could afford it. But what is the point? This was the first Indian Ocean tsunami since 1884. If those kind US observers who had time to call Diego Garcia had even tried to call anyone else, there would have been less loss of life. It's clearly not the sensors they need so much as the communications system. But how the hell do you get warnings to isolated coastal villages with no telephone? Or to Andamanese aboriginals who don't want to talk to you?
 

Juventuz

macrumors 6502a
Dec 4, 2002
663
0
Binghamton
skunk said:
If those kind US observers who had time to call Diego Garcia had even tried to call anyone else, there would have been less loss of life.
You neglect to note that the NOAA did put out a warning to all countries involved in the Pacific warning system. Indonesia is one of the countries involved in the system, yet they took the worst brunt of the tsunami. Thailand was also made aware of it, but felt that a warning would disrupt the tourists and they didn't want to scare them. Blaming the US is the easy way out.
 

makisushi

macrumors 6502
Jul 15, 2004
301
0
Northern VA
Swanny,

I am sorry that you feel such hatred towards us.
How do you know that we don't donate to charities? Are you making assumptions?

Your comments seem hypocritical as well. Bashing us because we sometimes don't follow the golden rule.

I must say I am hurt by your accusations.
 

skunk

macrumors G4
Jun 29, 2002
11,745
4,004
Republic of Ukistan
Juventuz said:
You neglect to note that the NOAA did put out a warning to all countries involved in the Pacific warning system. Indonesia is one of the countries involved in the system, yet they took the worst brunt of the tsunami. Thailand was also made aware of it, but felt that a warning would disrupt the tourists and they didn't want to scare them. Blaming the US is the easy way out.
I wasn't aware of that, and I wasn't meaning to blame the US. Quite the opposite: my main point was that Indian Ocean tsunamis are so rare, and many of the affected communities are so inaccessible and/or primitive that a permanent warning system of any sort is of questionable value. You can't insure against everything. Volcanic eruptions are at least to a certain extent predictable in advance, whereas earthquakes are hardly at all. Look at the devastation in Kobe, for instance, in a country where earthquake monitoring is about as advanced as it can get. No warning system would have saved the Indonesians or the Andamanese, since the wave must have arrived very quickly.
 

skunk

macrumors G4
Jun 29, 2002
11,745
4,004
Republic of Ukistan
swanny said:
It is a little to late for about 150,000 people or more to be
finally throwing money, though welcome, at the problem and
problems of the disparity of the human condition.
So what else do we do? Any suggestions? Or are you just beating your breast to assuage your conscience? Some of us, even in the Great Satan, do care for those less fortunate: sometimes it makes no difference.
 

Juventuz

macrumors 6502a
Dec 4, 2002
663
0
Binghamton
skunk said:
I wasn't aware of that, and I wasn't meaning to blame the US.
Understood and noted. I apologize if you felt that I was attacking you. I've read too much this past week saying the US should have done more to warn the various countries.

Quite the opposite: my main point was that Indian Ocean tsunamis are so rare, and many of the affected communities are so inaccessible and/or primitive that a permanent warning system of any sort is of questionable value. You can't insure against everything. Volcanic eruptions are at least to a certain extent predictable in advance, whereas earthquakes are hardly at all. Look at the devastation in Kobe, for instance, in a country where earthquake monitoring is about as advanced as it can get. No warning system would have saved the Indonesians or the Andamanese, since the wave must have arrived very quickly.
Agreed, predicting Tsunami's is a guessing game. You can have a large earthquake in the ocean and no tsunami. Small earthquake and you've got a minor tsunami. At this point it's just a guessing game.

I also agree that the countries in the Indian Ocean rim should develop their own network, much like the Pacific Rim network. I'm sure the US, Japan and other countries would be more than willing to help them out with it. Although I must admit that there is some concern when a nation like Indonesia participates in the system does nothing after they are notified of the potential of a tsunami.
 

pseudobrit

macrumors 68040
Jul 23, 2002
3,418
4
Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
Juventuz said:
I also agree that the countries in the Indian Ocean rim should develop their own network, much like the Pacific Rim network. I'm sure the US, Japan and other countries would be more than willing to help them out with it. Although I must admit that there is some concern when a nation like Indonesia participates in the system does nothing after they are notified of the potential of a tsunami.
Kinda like closing the gate after all the horses have run away though, isn't it?
 

mactastic

macrumors 68040
Apr 24, 2003
3,647
661
Colly-fornia
pseudobrit said:
In another 120 years?
Well you know the way probability works... It could happen again in 10 minutes or 10,000 years.

IOW there's still more horses in the barn, just nobody's sure when they're gonna make a run for it. But rest assured, an event like this WILL happen again in that region. Might as well prepare for it as best you can and hope for the best. Everyone should have a shot at a warning system.
 

musicpyrite

macrumors 68000
Jan 6, 2004
1,639
0
Cape Cod
zimv20 said:
i'm saying that the richer nations should pay for it. i wonder how many lives would have been saved w/ even 5 minutes of warning.
Why is it the United States', Brittish, French, United Kingdoms', etc. business to make sure that other countries are protected from tsunamis? Just because we have more money and man power than poorer nations? Thats not a very good reason. IJ Reilly and skunk made good points, why should rich nations monitor the water of poor nations when a tsunami happens every 100+ years? Eventually all the warnings sighs will be ignored, and then 'the big one' will hit.
 

zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,388
7
toronto
for the record, i'm proposing installing such systems all around the world, not just in the recently affected area.