I always hear racism is dead in the US

Michael Goff

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Then these things happen

  • Jason Roberts, who is white, spent 30 minutes trying to break into a car and no-one approached him
  • Quentin Brunson, who is black, tried the same stunt and got arrested inside two minutes
  • Video was part of a social experiment carried out for Roberts' YouTube channel Simple Misfits
  • In reality, FBI figures show the majority of car crime is carried out by white perpetrators
 

Michael Goff

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Just wondering...where did you hear this?

And from what troglodyte did you hear this?

And did it make any sense when heard?

...always hear....!?:confused:
From some of my family and the people around my community. Seriously, my sister's boyfriend was telling me that the only racism out there is "reverse racism" and that the courts aren't biased against black people.

Then again, I do live in Indiana.
 

Shrink

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From some of my family and the people around my community. Seriously, my sister's boyfriend was telling me that the only racism out there is "reverse racism" and that the courts aren't biased against black people.

Then again, I do live in Indiana.
Well, first I want to apologize for using the word "troglodyte" in what turns out to be a member of your family or a family member's friend. It was not my intent to be insulting to your family members.

Second, having attended IU many years ago, there was a "joke" prevalent at the time..."you are now landing a Weir Cook Airport (in Indianapolis). Please set your watches back 50 years". My first weekend in Bloomington there was an announcement on the radio that there was a Klan meeting scheduled, and gave the location.

In short, I am aware that IN was, and apparently still is, living in the distant past. I think that you will find that, aside from those mentioned in your post, there are very few people who think racism is dead or, unfortunately, more than slightly ill.

Citing examples of racist utterances is, IMO, unnecessary...it is, along with other forms of bigotry, unfortunately alive and well in the US...and elsewhere, too.
 

bradl

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From some of my family and the people around my community. Seriously, my sister's boyfriend was telling me that the only racism out there is "reverse racism" and that the courts aren't biased against black people.

Then again, I do live in Indiana.
Not for nothing, but you do have to question the ignorance of people who use the term "reverse racism". There is no such thing. Racism is racism, regardless of which race is the perpetrator and the victim. If it is white on black, it's racism; if it is black on white, it's racism. if it's Asian on black, it's racism. If it is Japanese on hispanic, it's racism.

You get my point.

Those that use "reverse" racism, don't have a bloody clue of what they are talking about. However, I will say, as I have said many times in this forum, no-one will truly know what racism is until they have been a victim of it.


BL.
 

Michael Goff

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Well, first I want to apologize for using the word "troglodyte" in what turns out to be a member of your family or a family member's friend. It was not my intent to be insulting to your family members.

Second, having attended IU many years ago, there was a "joke" prevalent at the time..."you are now landing a Weir Cook Airport (in Indianapolis). Please set your watches back 50 years". My first weekend in Bloomington there was an announcement on the radio that there was a Klan meeting scheduled, and gave the location.

In short, I am aware that IN was, and apparently still is, living in the distant past. I think that you will find that, aside from those mentioned in your post, there are very few people who think racism is dead or, unfortunately, more than slightly ill.

Citing examples of racist utterances is, IMO, unnecessary...it is, along with other forms of bigotry, unfortunately alive and well in the US...and elsewhere, too.
No, no, troglodyte is the term to use. Them being friends, and future family most likely, doesn't change that. They're overall good people mostly, but ... yeah. Also, that saying about Indiana is 120% true.

Not for nothing, but you do have to question the ignorance of people who use the term "reverse racism". There is no such thing. Racism is racism, regardless of which race is the perpetrator and the victim. If it is white on black, it's racism; if it is black on white, it's racism. if it's Asian on black, it's racism. If it is Japanese on hispanic, it's racism.

You get my point.

Those that use "reverse" racism, don't have a bloody clue of what they are talking about. However, I will say, as I have said many times in this forum, no-one will truly know what racism is until they have been a victim of it.


BL.
I don't question the ignorance of people who use reverse-racism any more than I question the existence of oxygen in air.
 

SLC Flyfishing

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Not for nothing, but you do have to question the ignorance of people who use the term "reverse racism". There is no such thing. Racism is racism, regardless of which race is the perpetrator and the victim. If it is white on black, it's racism; if it is black on white, it's racism. if it's Asian on black, it's racism. If it is Japanese on hispanic, it's racism.

You get my point.

Those that use "reverse" racism, don't have a bloody clue of what they are talking about. However, I will say, as I have said many times in this forum, no-one will truly know what racism is until they have been a victim of it.


BL.
Well said!
 

bradl

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I'll just leave this here.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/05/23/racist-tendencies-common-too-many-tribes

Racist Tendencies Common in Too Many Tribes
by Cedric Sunray
5/23/12

Last month’s racially motivated killings in Oklahoma, perpetrated by Cherokee Indian Jake England and his white roommate against members of North Tulsa’s black community, once again bring to light the prejudicial tendencies held by many in our Indian communities.

This reality is the literal “Negro Elephant in the Room," which many tribal communities attempt to pass off as issues of sovereignty, enrollment decision making, “and, well we had it as bad as them” rhetoric. However, the real effect is that our children grow up in environments where tribal governments and tribal members broadcast their racist ideologies -- such as in the more recent case of the Cherokee Freedmen—to an audience of young people who are not provided with the full histories and realities of their historical connections to the black community.

I have seen one too many times where the half-black grandchildren of Indian people are even marginalized by their own Indian families or are viewed as the “lone exception” to their prejudicial leanings due to their blood connection.

In 1978, Terry Anderson and Kirke Kickingbird were hired by the National Congress of American Indians to research the issue of federal recognition and present a paper on their findings to the National Conference on Federal Recognition which was being held in Nashville, Tennessee. Their paper, “An Historical Perspective on the Issue of Federal Recognition and Non-recognition” closed with the following statement:

“The reasons that are usually presented to withhold recognition from tribes are 1) that they are racially tainted with the blood of African tribes-men or 2) greed, for newly recognized tribes will share in the appropriations for services given to the Bureau of Indian Affairs. The names of justice, mercy, sanity, common sense, fiscal responsibility, and rationality can be presented just as easily on the side of those advocating recognition.”

Professor Don Rankin from Samford University in Birmingham, Alabama has recounted by letter a disturbing incident occurring during a June 1995 genealogy seminar conducted by Sharon Scholars Brown at Samford University. His letter states:

“Someone brought up the MOWA Choctaw and their attempt at federal recognition. At this stage, several people had gathered around as we were talking. Ms. Brown responded in an even professional tone of voice that she felt that they would not be successful. When asked why, she responded that they had black ancestors and in her opinion were not Indian. Mr. Lee Fleming, who was at the time the Tribal Registrar for the Western Band of Cherokees and one of the lecturers, agreed with her. I was shocked at their statements.”

Lee Fleming, a Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma (CNO) citizen, is now the Director of the Office of Federal Acknowledgment and was the responsible party for the denial of the MOWA Choctaw petition.

Another CNO tribal member, Darrin Buzzard, remarked in an email in referencing the Cherokee Freedmen, “...they will suck you dry. Their children will suck you dry…protect Cherokee culture for our children. For our daughter, for the American people as a whole. Fight against the infiltration.”


Some tribal members attempt to disassociate their own ancestry from any black connection. At a conference a few years back I was speaking with a member of a federally recognized Northeastern tribe who told me he had no black ancestry, his afro hairstyle not withstanding, I assumed.

In 2005, my wife was invited as a judge overseeing the annual Mississippi Choctaw Princess Pageant. The only entrant of mixed Indian and black heritage amongst the 20 competitors was crowned, much to the dismay of many in attendance. Radmilla Cody, the first Miss Navajo Nation of mixed Indian and black ancestry has relayed the reality of the racial prejudice she experienced from her own people as well.

Aside from perceived gaming competition is the primary reason why historic “non-federal” tribes such as the Lumbee, Chickahominy, MOWA Choctaw, Nanticoke, Houma, Haliwa-Saponi, Unkechaug, and others in the eastern and southern US regions remain without recognition. They all share the “burden” of being either of some or presumed to be of some black ancestry. On the contrary, many federal tribes who are of predominantly white ancestry are never questioned as to their racial reality.

Black ancestry within Indian communities does not nullify or lessen Indian social, cultural, and familial fabrics. Black people, Indian people, poor whites and others have endured great atrocities throughout history.

In the end, the greatest atrocity may be that we don’t recognize that commonality fully in one another and that Jake England, as a young, identifiable Indian with a murdered father, incarcerated mother, girlfriend who committed suicide, and one with responsibilities as a single, teenage father to a young child, is as much a victim as a perpetrator in the historical narrative that is race.

Cedric Sunray is one of four generations of enrolled family members of the MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians in Alabama.
Amazing how "racist" American Indians can be, n'est-ce pas?

My point: Racism knows no colours, therefore there can be no reverse. If you write an O or a circle the opposite direction, it is still an O or a circle. Same with racism; no matter which way it goes, even in its opposite direction, it is still racism. And the only way to free ourselves of it is to look in the mirror and change our minds; because as much as people have tried (Michael Jackson, anyone?), it is hard as hell to change one's skin colour.

BL.
 

jkcerda

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Sharpton & jackson would cease to be in the news, I would LOVE that.:D

----------

Not for nothing, but you do have to question the ignorance of people who use the term "reverse racism". There is no such thing. Racism is racism, regardless of which race is the perpetrator and the victim. If it is white on black, it's racism; if it is black on white, it's racism. if it's Asian on black, it's racism. If it is Japanese on hispanic, it's racism.

You get my point.

Those that use "reverse" racism, don't have a bloody clue of what they are talking about. However, I will say, as I have said many times in this forum, no-one will truly know what racism is until they have been a victim of it.


BL.
hard to define "victim", been called all kinds of names since I sport a permanent tan & have an accent, I did not "feel" like a victim.
 

bradl

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Sharpton & jackson would cease to be in the news, I would LOVE that.:D

----------


hard to define "victim", been called all kinds of names since I sport a permanent tan & have an accent, I did not "feel" like a victim.
Names are one thing. Have you been beaten? Kicked out of a place because of your skin colour? Refused service because of your skin colour? disenfranchised because of your skin colour? Vilified publicly?

I have; you have probably just been called names, and ignored it, which is a good thing. I've been beaten up by people in the South just because of my skin colour, and I'm from the North, despite my grandparents living in this rural town for over 70 years at that time. I fought back, which almost got me detained, at 10 years old. Yes, that was 1984.

If you were to seriously take stock of all the times you've been taunted racially, you'd realize how much more often it occurred than you realized; Thank goodness you were brought up with parents who taught you much more about tolerance than you realize.

I also submit this. Adam Goodes is a two-time Brownlow Medalist (Player of the year, MVP, college equivalent would be Heisman), two-time Premiership Player (equivalent to winning the Super Bowl twice), and All Australian player for his team, the Sydney Swans, in the Australian rules Football League. Multiple-time All Australian, selected in their Indigenous Team of the Century, and recently, Australian of the Year (equivalent: Time's Person of the Year).

In one of their rounds of matches over the weekend just this past year... well.. I'll let HuffPo tell the story. And just so you know, HuffPo got the story second hand, as it was reported in the following sources:

The Age (Melbourne).
The Sydney Morning Herald.
Nine-MSN.
ABC.
Fox.
The Guardian.
The Herald Sun.


So it has been corroborated. Either way, here's what HuffPo had to say.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/26/adam-goodes-racism_n_3339704.html

Adam Goodes Calls Out Spectator's Racist Comment (VIDEO)
The Huffington Post | By Alana Horowitz Posted: 05/26/2013 12:44 pm EDT | Updated: 05/28/2013 9:24 am EDT

An Australian rules football player is being praised after calling out a fan's racist remark on Friday night.

During the game, a teenage spectator called Sydney Swans forward Adam Goodes-- who is Indigenous-- an "ape" as he ran by. Goodes responded by pointing the girl out to security, who then escorted her off the premises.

Goodes was shaken up, especially because the match was meant to be a celebration of Indigenous players.

"To come to the boundary line and hear a 13-year-old girl call me an 'ape', and it's not the first time on a footy field that I've been referred to as a 'monkey' or an 'ape', it was shattering," he told the ABC.

Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard called his response "something we can look up to."

"His words and actions today displayed the highest levels of respect and fairness -- qualities he carries on and off the field," she said, according to the Herald Sun.

Goodes said that the teenager called him later to apologize.

"It's not her fault, she's 13, she's still so innocent, I don't put any blame on her," he said. "Unfortunately it's what she hears, in the environment she's grown up in that has made her think that it's okay to call people names."

Watch the confrontation in the video above.
I've embedded the video below. My point here is while no-one should be a subjected to (whether 3rd party to or the victim of) racism, at the very least it is better to know you've been subjected to it and are more tolerant of it and rise above it, than to be subjected to it and naively miss that you have been subjected to it.

It speaks more of your character to speak out about it and take a stand against it the right way than to ignore it and not do anything about it until it happens again, or stand against it the wrong way.

BL.

P.S. The video:

 
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jkcerda

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Names are one thing.
1. Have you been beaten?
2.Kicked out of a place because of your skin colour?
3 Refused service because of your skin colour?
4. disenfranchised because of your skin colour?
5. Vilified publicly?

I have; you have probably just been called names, and ignored it, which is a good thing. I've been beaten up by people in the South just because of my skin colour, and I'm from the North, despite my grandparents living in this rural town for over 70 years at that time. I fought back, which almost got me detained, at 10 years old. Yes, that was 1984.

If you were to seriously take stock of all the times you've been taunted racially, you'd realize how much more often it occurred than you realized; Thank goodness you were brought up with parents who taught you much more about tolerance than you realize.

I also submit this. Adam Goodes is a two-time Brownlow Medalist (Player of the year, MVP, college equivalent would be Heisman), two-time Premiership Player (equivalent to winning the Super Bowl twice), and All Australian player for his team, the Sydney Swans, in the Australian rules Football League. Multiple-time All Australian, selected in their Indigenous Team of the Century, and recently, Australian of the Year (equivalent: Time's Person of the Year).

In one of their rounds of matches over the weekend just this past year... well.. I'll let HuffPo tell the story. And just so you know, HuffPo got the story second hand, as it was reported in the following sources:

The Age (Melbourne).
The Sydney Morning Herald.
Nine-MSN.
ABC.
Fox.
The Guardian.
The Herald Sun.


So it has been corroborated. Either way, here's what HuffPo had to say.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/26/adam-goodes-racism_n_3339704.html



I've embedded the video below. My point here is while no-one should be a subjected to (whether 3rd party to or the victim of) racism, at the very least it is better to know you've been subjected to it and are more tolerant of it and rise above it, than to be subjected to it and naively miss that you have been subjected to it.

It speaks more of your character to speak out about it and take a stand against it the right way than to ignore it and not do anything about it until it happens again, or stand against it the wrong way.

BL.

P.S. The video:

YouTube: video
1. some dudes who all happen to share the same pale complexion TRIED, they didn't get far :)
2. never been kicked out of anywhere than I can remember based on my skin color.
3 nope.
4 can't claim that it was because of my skin color.
5 does the wife doing it count?:eek:

I am glad to say that I have never really felt like I was being discriminated, aside from the 1 incident things have been rather smooth for me, been to IL, AZ and reside in kommiefornia, that MIGHT have something to do with it.
 

bradl

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1. some dudes who all happen to share the same pale complexion TRIED, they didn't get far :)
2. never been kicked out of anywhere than I can remember based on my skin color.
3 nope.
4 can't claim that it was because of my skin color.
5 does the wife doing it count?:eek:

I am glad to say that I have never really felt like I was being discriminated, aside from the 1 incident things have been rather smooth for me, been to IL, AZ and reside in kommiefornia, that MIGHT have something to do with it.
Walk around Southern Oklahoma, Arkansas, Alabama, or Mississippi, and see how it is. Again, I was raised in Nebraska. My parents born and raised during the segregation and Civil Rights era in rural Oklahoma. They have pictures of waking up in the morning to seeing nooses hanging from trees in their front yard, being kicked out of school and forced to be segregated schools 5 - 10 miles away, despite accommodating schools being less than a block away. My parents were 13 and 7 when Brown v. Board overturned Plessy v. Ferguson. Back then, Arizona was barely a State, and there was more racial equality in Illinois than there was in all of Arkansas and Alabama combined. Hell, there was more racial equality in the state you are calling Kommie and Socialist than in all of the states involved back in that area, combined.

You don't know how good you've had it. So you may want to walk a mile or two in the shoes of people who had been through it. You'll have your eyes opened and get a better perspective of what you've taken for granted in having in CALIfornia.

BL.

P.S. Oh, I forgot to mention that it Adam Goodes holds the record for the most games played in his team's history (which goes back to 1896), and was the AFL Rising Star winner in 1998 (equivalent to Rookie of the Year). So his accolades stand up for himself, yet he was racially vilified. He took a stand, just like the a previous indigenous player did, Nicky Winmar after constantly being racially vilified by both players, fans, and staff.

The photograph taken of him taking a stand was said to be the most poignant and significant in Australian sport history. Similar to Jackie Robinson.

You seriously don't know how good you have it.
 

MacNut

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I don't think racism is dead people just don't openly talk about it anymore. Walk down the street I bet most people would be threatened by 3 black kids vs 3 white kids. They won't say it but they think it. Is that not racist?
 

bradl

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I don't think racism is dead people just don't openly talk about it anymore. Walk down the street I bet most people would be threatened by 3 black kids vs 3 white kids. They won't say it but they think it. Is that not racist?
Not really, because in some people's minds, they do believe that it is dead because we have a black POTUS, 2 white rappers with albums on the charts, and one of the richest women in the country is black. So it must be over..

.. until the jealousy of having other races experience more success than them starts to kick in, and things rear their ugly heads again.

BL.
 

palmerc2

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The black man said he's proud to be black, and was given congratulations and told its great he's proud of his race.

The white man said he's proud to be white, and he was called a racist.

This may be one instance, but there are plenty of instances where it's been the other way around. So yes, I believe in reverse racism.
 

MacNut

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Not really, because in some people's minds, they do believe that it is dead because we have a black POTUS, 2 white rappers with albums on the charts, and one of the richest women in the country is black. So it must be over..

.. until the jealousy of having other races experience more success than them starts to kick in, and things rear their ugly heads again.

BL.
How much is success a part of it, I never knew that to be a factor in racism. I always thought it went by skin color and money or not that is a factor in a racists mind. Do racists take rich and poor into account?
 

jkcerda

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The black man said he's proud to be black, and was given congratulations and told its great he's proud of his race.

The white man said he's proud to be white, and he was called a racist.

This may be one instance, but there are plenty of instances where it's been the other way around. So yes, I believe in reverse racism.
no such thing as "reverse" racism IMHO.
 

Michael Goff

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The black man said he's proud to be black, and was given congratulations and told its great he's proud of his race.

The white man said he's proud to be white, and he was called a racist.

This may be one instance, but there are plenty of instances where it's been the other way around. So yes, I believe in reverse racism.
There's really no such thing as reverse racism. If person A hits person B with a baseball bat, it's assault. If person B hits person A with a baseball bat, it isn't called "reverse assault".
 

Desertrat

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An oddity in my life: I had lived my life in the south--Texas and Florida--until I took a job at Chevrolet in Detroit in 1962. There, I heard far more active verbalization of racism against blacks than ever in the south.

I'm not trying to excuse southern racism; I'm just saying that to me, it was stronger and more virulent in Detroit.

I'd seen a good bit of the wide world before I entered college. Many ethnicities, many cultures. For me, when MLK spoke of character and not color, hey, that's already the way I lived. I only add "behavior" to it.

And now I'm back in a very small city in the deep south and what I mostly see, day to day, is a large amount of inter-racial courtesy and politeness.

Just my opinion about this general area: Racism is much less about blacks as a group. It's negative about those blacks whose character and behavior is poor. Not saying racism doesn't exist, but I have difficulty is seeing a negative view of malbehavior as inherently racist.
 

bradl

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The black man said he's proud to be black, and was given congratulations and told its great he's proud of his race.

The white man said he's proud to be white, and he was called a racist.

This may be one instance, but there are plenty of instances where it's been the other way around. So yes, I believe in reverse racism.
Your assumption is that racism only happens between blacks and whites. That is what you are missing. What happens if it is, like I said before, Asian vs. Arab? What do you call it then? Or Asian vs. white? Whites are not always the instigators, and that type of thinking is what you need to brush aside when it comes to racism.

How much is success a part of it, I never knew that to be a factor in racism. I always thought it went by skin color and money or not that is a factor in a racists mind. Do racists take rich and poor into account?
It plays a part, but isn't a direct factor. Status is always one of many culprits when it comes to envy over status, but add in the skin colour difference and it starts to get really deep, especially when it comes down to reactions based on that envy. It definitely can play a part, but isn't the single contributing factor, no.

BL.
 

SLC Flyfishing

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Bradl, I'm mostly just curious about your take on this, but what do you say about palmer's scenario where a white person is called racist for saying he's proud of being white while members of other races are not similarly vilified for expressing pride in their racial heritage?

And no, I'm not making a judgement either way, I'm just genuinely curious since I respect your take on this topic.