I have always tried to tell the truth.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by 1458279, Feb 20, 2016.

  1. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #1
    CBS Interview with Hillary Clinton:

    Pelley: Have you always told the truth?
    Hillary: I have always tried to, always, always.


    She was asked on another interview about the influence of her donations and even the CBS morning hosts couldn't stop laughing at her.

    Most Americans think she is a lair. She can't even give a straight answer about being truthful and she wants to become president.

    Does character matter any more?
     
  2. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #2
    Let me clue you in on a little secret: Every human being in the history of the world has told a lie. Anybody who tells you that they've never lied, is lying to you. The Pope has lied; Barack Obama has lied. You mom, dad, sibling, grandma have all lied. I've lied. You've lied.

    Many times people lie for good reasons: "Hey mom, that turkey casserole was delicious!" "Thanks for that sweater, Grandma!" Sometimes for not such good ones.

    But lets just save us all from wasting any more time pretending that politicians have some special monopoly on either lying - or the truth. The reality is they have neither.

    Character matters a heck of a lot. And I'll tell you this: I'd prefer Hillary Clinton's character (as imperfect as yours or mine) over Ted Cruz - a man roundly loathed by pretty much everyone he's ever worked with) or Donald Trump - a racist egomaniac and boor. And both of whom have cluttered the empty brainpans of Republican primary voters with all manner of outrageous and risible lies.
     
  3. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #3
    It's interesting that you justify this by saying everyone lies. So are you a liar? Do you consider yourself a liar? If someone calls you a liar, does that make you feel bad about your character?
    Since you've already admitted to lying is there anything you wouldn't lie about? Where do you draw the line?

    When someone challenges you on your honesty, do you think about the question "so aren't you a liar too?"

    Do you use the lying of others to justify lying yourself?

    Does someone else lying to you bother you or do you just expect it? Is there much reason to even ask someone something important when you expect them to lie?
     
  4. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #4
    According to Politifact Hilary is one of the most honest politicians. Trump is dead last.
     
  5. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #5

    Why does Hillary lying bother you so much yet Trump lying doesn't bother you a bit?
     
  6. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #6
    Everybody tells lies. Most people tell lies many times every day. Mostly harmless little untruths to grease the wheels of social and familial life. But sometimes bigger ones. Sometimes we tell lies in response to questions people have no right to ask us.

    I'll give you an example: When I go to a coffee shop, the barista will ask for my name. Presumably to write on the paper cup; and so they can summon me when its done.

    Frankly, these people have no right to know my name. Let alone announce it loudly to everyone within hearing distance. So I usually give them a fake one. Often as unusual as I can come up with in the half second it takes me to think about this. I've been Hercule; Gunther; Giancarlo; Boris; Wolfgang; Quentin; Sebastian; and Hector (with a silent "H") on more than one occasion.

    Does that make me a "liar"? No: I'm not trying defraud the coffee shop. I'm just not particularly amenable to sharing personal information with a roomful of strangers; and I don't feel like getting into an argument just to get a cup of coffee.

    Now, if I was interviewed on national television and asked if I lied - I think I'd answer the same way as Hillary Clinton did. Because I'm honest. I try to tell the truth, when its important that people know the facts. But not every time some jackass asks me a stupid question; for which they have no reasonable expectation of 100% metaphysical truthfulness.
     
  7. MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #7
    It depends on what you lie.
    There are little, meaningless lies and big lies.

    Bernie Sanders seems to be someone who does not big lies - Hillary does and did - and she and her husband were paid 125 Million Dollars for their lies. Hillary is fighting for not being forced to get in the same situation like Bill, when he said "I did not have…." -
    Hillary tries to prevent that she has to claim one day:

    "I did not have political relationship with That BANK"

    https://theintercept.com/2016/02/19/hillary-clinton-goldman-sachs-transcripts/

    What also the video included in the interesting text.

    I hope Bernie will make it as candidate - and win in November...
     
  8. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #8
    That's actually a good example. I guess there is a difference in the "right to know" part. In the case of someone wanting your name, it could be considered a lie, but a lie of little or no consequence. In the case of Bill Clinton and the "I didn't have..." lie, it's (IMO) not of a large consequence in and of itself. IIRC, it did relate to tampering with a witness, which is different.

    In the case of Hillary saying she dodged sniper fire and never saw the FBI files that later were found in her room with her finger prints, is a bit different.

    One of the concerns is a persons ability to know when to stop. False name at a coffee shop is nothing, but many slip down a slope and don't know when to stop.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016 ---
    I think I'd look more at the people's opinion. Even the Dems see Hillary as a liar and shouted her down several times.
    As far as Trump goes, he says some things for a specific reason. If you are looking at what he said about thousands of muslims celebrating 9/11, this was likely a calculated exaggeration.

    He did this to gain the upper hand on the media. Notice how the media was forced to follow Trump? The media had NO CHOICE but to follow Trump or they would lose ratings. He knows the media and he took full control over them. Notice how much media attention he got for free? He played them and he played them so hard he fully owned them. Notice how NOBODY came close to Trump for free media coverage and they got slapped down like little kids.

    The media is nothing but a bunch of puppets and they got CRUSHED by Trump because he knows exactly what he is doing.

    Name anyone in the history of humanity that has ever owned a free (or near free) media like Trump has... that's the Art of the Deal :D
    --- Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016 ---
    Notice how she mentions Bernie taking money. Bernie donated 100% of his little bit of money from what ONE speech? She's made MILLIONS and KEPT it. She side steps the repeated attempts to release the transcripts by saying she's stands in the open.

    Notice how she queue's up the people with her voice getting them to clap every time she raises her voice as she commands the people to shout down anyone that challenges her?

    BTW, when she says she went to the banks/wall street and told them to knock it off... It didn't work did it? She's saying she KNEW what was going on and was able to do NOTHING to stop it. Much like Libya, her plan was enacted and FAILED.
     
  9. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #9
    Bill is "an unusually good liar" and Hillary is "a congenital liar."
     
  10. MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #10
    a good benchmark for politicians is the simple question:

    "Would you like to buy a used car offered by this person??"

    and I see only Bernie Sanders worth the "YES!" answer….
    Bernie Sanders is really the personality that Obama just pretended to be….
     
  11. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #11
    as long as trump is not speaking you know he is not lying. I swear he works not to tell the truth.
     
  12. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #12
    Hillary lied to the faces of family members of dead US citizens, and lied about having classified info on her email server and that's just recent examples, so it's more about the context of lieing than just the amount of lieing. Trump saying he was against the Iraq war isn't going to hurt anyone, Hillary mishandling classified info that China and Russia could hack and lieing about it is a whole different situation.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016 ---
    Honestly I would buy a used car from Bush or Kasich as well, neither have a chance.
     
  13. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #13
    Bill and Hilary have lied for a living all their lives.

    Cattle Futures?
    Vince Foster?

    They should both be in prison.
     
  14. MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #14

    I think the best choice for decades for US citizens would be the choice between Kasich and Sanders in November.
    Both seem to aim for solutions for ALL US citizens …. perhaps we are facing the most important democratic (meaning democratic, not Democrat Party) movement since decades. Maybe it has the same importance as had the demonstrations of citizens in Eastern Germany forcing the fall of the iron curtain… (Yes, it was NOT Reagan, it was millions of people risking their life)….
     
  15. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #15
    Agreed. Everyone has lied, no arguments there. And yet, instead of simply admitting to this, Hillary comes up with the equivalent of "I smoked it, but didn't inhale" or "Depends on what the definition of 'is' is."
     
  16. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #16
    Still, what could she say as a politician running for office? "I might tell a white lie now and then?"

    It's understood that honest people may withhold truth (from children for example, in assorted situations) or may offer a parallel or slanted truth in diplomatic situations when some deflection can't be served up. But even that admission from a politician won't do for a ravening press and public; we hang them out to dry for any little gaffe (never mind the big stupid ones). Every time we do that we make them retreat further into scripted responses until we have what we have now, where the whole thing is a script from end to end on both sides of the cameras and mics.
     
  17. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    #17
    There goes your liberal media again. I'm sure wanker Scott Pelley will grill lying liars Trump and Cruz on this just as hard... right around never.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016 ---
    You forgot Mena airport drug running. RINO!
    --- Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016 ---
    She has a "D" after her name? She has lady parts?
     
  18. 5684697, Feb 20, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016

    5684697 Suspended

    5684697

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    #18
    How do we know that you are not lying now?

    Republicans hate Cruz because he rains on their "don't rock the boat" strategy to line their own pockets. Bob Dole is exhibit A. He lost his election by being meek, saying that if he lost, he'd "retire back in his modest little home town of Russell Kansas..." Total utter BS. Bob Dole is the ultimate Washington Insider (wife was given multiple administration jobs, then served as governor), so he "retired" on K Street as a high powered lobbyist. Last thing he wants to see is a guy like Cruz trying to fend off the cozy money flow from corporations to lobbyists to politicians.

    Hillary did it a different way. She and hubby in name only, Bill, created a money laundering operation called the Clinton Global Initiative. It serves as cover for massive speaking fees and influence peddling, lining the pockets of the power couple in a different manner.

    You are seeing an election where the people on both sides have had it with the career politicians who are desperately trying to hold on to their lucrative schemes.

    In the middle of all of this, comes someone who for years was a complete, lying, self-promoting, spoiled jackass...and he is leading the freaking polls and may well win the Presidency. Bob Dole loves the idea of Trump as president. All you have to do is stroke his ego and you'll get whatever you want. The rich blokes know how to butter each other's bread.
     
  19. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #19
    People in positions of great responsibility sometimes have little choice other than lying. There are instances where neither directly telling the truth, nor even a standard "no comment" or Azorian "Neither confirm nor deny" will do.

    Sometimes people make statements, fully intending them to be truthful - and yet end up being overtaken by events or circumstances. I count George H.W. Bush's "No new taxes!" pledge among this type. When he said it - he probably meant it. No matter how ill advised such a blanket statement might have been then, and now.

    And sometimes people, even Presidents, find themselves asked questions no human being should ever have to answer. And I guess I count Bill Clinton's "not have sexual relations with that woman" statement in that category. No person should have had to submit to that sort of interrogation as part of a political witch hunt.

    The problem with so much of the obsession people have with politicians and lying, is that they focus blindly on the trivialities, and totally ignore the massive, unimaginably destructive big lies they seem to get away with on a pretty much daily basis.
     
  20. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #20
    I wonder if anyone will ask her how much the Super Delegates cost in each state, since she has clearly purchased them all, already. New Hampshire shows just how be a scan the Democrat Primary process is. She will get the nomination but lose the popular vote by a wide margin.

    The Clinton Machine in action.
     
  21. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #21
    Really you should read up just a little more on the superdelegates before you sling that stuff.
     
  22. 5684697 Suspended

    5684697

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    #22
    Witch Hunt? It would have been different had Bill Clinton been having an affair with a 40 something divorcee instead of a very young, naive intern. It has always amazed me that people who excoriate corporate execs abusing power gave Clinton a pass on what was predatory behavior. I guess selling your soul is commonplace in order to preserve whatever your pet issue happens to be.

    Bill also knew it was wrong and indefensible, otherwise he wouldn't have lied about it.

    The country should be able to come up with better candidates than Clinton/Sanders. The fact that Clinton's have so much power precluded a lot of talented Democrats from running, now we have a freaking mess. So yeah, lying matters, and shouldn't be discounted and accepted as readily as you seem to want it to be.
     
  23. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #23
    The super delegates are nothing more than a way for the Democrat party to circumvent the voters will. Hillary earning as many delegates in NH as Sanders did after losing by 22 percentage points is a travesty.
     
  24. vrDrew, Feb 20, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016

    vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #24
    I can fairly precisely date the time I started to become a Democrat to the time I watched Bill Clinton's televised admission of his affair with Monica Lewinsky.

    Not because I thought what he had done was right (it wasn't.) But the fact that the leader of our great nation had been so publicly humiliated by a process instituted by his (hypocritical, as it turned out) political enemies. That they had put our country through two years of this nonsense; spending tens of millions of dollars investigating what was, ultimately, a strictly personal matter. Bill Clinton owed his wife, his daughter, and Ms. Lewinsky an apology. Not me, not you. And certainly not anyone in Congress.

    That the Republicans would do that made me seriously question their motivations and their interests. They weren't then, and they aren't now, interested in promoting the good of the country and its people. They are interested solely in winning elections. By any means possible.

    The election of George W. Bush turned on a number of factors; but surely large among them was the damage caused by the Lewinsky scandal. And I watched in horror as GW Bush used the sense of national fear and patriotism after 9/11 to lie us into a war than has costs us trillions of dollars and left thousands of innocent people dead and maimed. Many of them Americans. I saw reckless, unnecessary tax cuts go to the richest Americans at a time when the poor and middle class were suffering. I saw a laissez-faire attitude towards regulation and business result in a collapse that almost destroyed the world economy.

    And I've seen Republicans spend the years since Bush jr.'s departure from the White House blaming Barack Obama for creating the mess.

    Thats what I mean by massive, disastrous lies.
     
  25. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    #25
    Really? He perjured himself before a grand jury investigating a sexual harassment claim against him by Paula Jones, in which his was alleged to have exposed his penis to her without her permission. He then later requested others to lie about his relationship with Lewenski in legal proceedings, and was subsequently impeached for his behavior.
     

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