I hope that people who think that next years rMBP hardware will fix the "lag"...

theuserjohnny

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 7, 2012
450
7
If you're holding out because you think that next years hardware updates will fix the "lag" issue you might want to think again.

"Remember at 2880 x 1800 there are simply more pixels to push and more work to be done by both the CPU and the GPU. It’s even worse in those applications that have higher quality assets: the CPU now has to decode images at 4x the resolution of what it’s used to. Future CPUs will take this added workload into account, but it’ll take time to get there."

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review/8

I just find it amusing that people want to bash on the "lag" because of this review and then say that next years model will fix it... yet the same review that people use to bash the "lag" don't realize that he even states that in terms of hardware it'll take time to get there for it to be "buttery smooth".
 

stevelam

macrumors 65816
Nov 4, 2010
1,215
3
If you're holding out because you think that next years hardware updates will fix the "lag" issue you might want to think again.

"Remember at 2880 x 1800 there are simply more pixels to push and more work to be done by both the CPU and the GPU. It’s even worse in those applications that have higher quality assets: the CPU now has to decode images at 4x the resolution of what it’s used to. Future CPUs will take this added workload into account, but it’ll take time to get there."

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review/8

I just find it amusing that people want to bash on the "lag" because of this review and then say that next years model will fix it... yet the same review that people use to bash the "lag" don't realize that he even states that in terms of hardware it'll take time to get there for it to be "buttery smooth".
sorry but what the hell was the point of this post? basically all you said is "oh look, anand says it'll take time to fix the lag!"

maybe thats..oh i don't know...next year? or do you have some additional info or something of actual relevance to share?

if anything, all it really states is that the people who claim their RMBPs are perfect with no lag are just lying to themselves. there are a lot of great things about my RMBP, but you'd have to be completely blind or willfully ignorant to not see all the lag that happens in day to day regular OS UI tasks.
 

theuserjohnny

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 7, 2012
450
7
sorry but what the hell was the point of this post? basically all you said is "oh look, anand says it'll take time to fix the lag!"

maybe thats..oh i don't know...next year? or do you have some additional info or something of actual relevance to share?

if anything, all it really states is that the people who claim their RMBPs are perfect with no lag are just lying to themselves. there are a lot of great things about my RMBP, but you'd have to be completely blind or willfully ignorant to not see all the lag that happens in day to day regular OS UI tasks.
Yeah the point that I'm trying to make is that the people who are trying to justify not buying one this year because next years model will fix the lag will just be in for disappointment.

Haswell won't be the answer that people are looking for.

I love the Retina, if my past 3 Retina's didn't have screen issue's I'd be using her right now.
 

NutsNGum

macrumors 68030
Jul 30, 2010
2,849
323
Glasgow, Scotland
Haswell may not be some miracle cure, but it's a dramatic step up in IGP performance and, most likely, performance overall; which may make it worth the wait for some.
 

AZREOSpecialist

macrumors 68020
Mar 15, 2009
2,117
925
If you're holding out because you think that next years hardware updates will fix the "lag" issue you might want to think again.

"Remember at 2880 x 1800 there are simply more pixels to push and more work to be done by both the CPU and the GPU. It’s even worse in those applications that have higher quality assets: the CPU now has to decode images at 4x the resolution of what it’s used to. Future CPUs will take this added workload into account, but it’ll take time to get there."

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review/8

I just find it amusing that people want to bash on the "lag" because of this review and then say that next years model will fix it... yet the same review that people use to bash the "lag" don't realize that he even states that in terms of hardware it'll take time to get there for it to be "buttery smooth".
Why do you care?
 

Menge

macrumors 6502a
Dec 22, 2008
608
2
Amsterdam
I had the opportunity of using a rMBP last night for a while and the lag really is afuful for anything that really makes use of the retina resolution.

The iPad 3 kind of suffers from this as well, but definitely not as bad. Wouldn't buy a rMBP now even if it cost the same as a MBA :( it would get on my nerves constantly.
 

AZREOSpecialist

macrumors 68020
Mar 15, 2009
2,117
925
the people who claim their RMBPs are perfect with no lag are just lying to themselves. there are a lot of great things about my RMBP, but you'd have to be completely blind or willfully ignorant to not see all the lag that happens in day to day regular OS UI tasks.
Wow, okay, so just because I don't experience any of this "lag" nonsense that people are talking about makes me a liar, "completely blind" or "willfully ignorant"? I'm glad I don't live in such a one-way black-and-white world.

----------

I had the opportunity of using a rMBP last night for a while and the lag really is afuful for anything that really makes use of the retina resolution.
What software were you using?
 

polotska

macrumors 6502
Sep 23, 2007
254
0
I had the opportunity of using a rMBP last night for a while and the lag really is afuful for anything that really makes use of the retina resolution.

The iPad 3 kind of suffers from this as well, but definitely not as bad. Wouldn't buy a rMBP now even if it cost the same as a MBA :( it would get on my nerves constantly.
I know what you mean, but once I got used to ”Retina” displays, using standard-density displays got on my nerves constantly! :)
 

Xerotech

macrumors 6502
Jul 22, 2011
418
5
Amazing GPU
Fast SSD
Super light and thin.

Honestly, if the retina display came out and it looked the same or was a BTO option, I wouldn't have gotten it. The thing that hit the spot was the redesign of thinness and weight. Fully upgraded non-retina macs are more expensive. There is also the option of down-scaling the resolution.

Read texts at full res, tone it down when using intensive applications. The text is so crisp and there is barely a scroll lag. :p
 

mjn298

macrumors regular
Oct 25, 2011
201
0
Palisades, Washington, DC
Can someone describe what the lag is? I didn't notice anything that bothered me but I don't know if it's because it didn't happen, or it did and I just didn't care because it didn't affect my experience.
 

Xerotech

macrumors 6502
Jul 22, 2011
418
5
Can someone describe what the lag is? I didn't notice anything that bothered me but I don't know if it's because it didn't happen, or it did and I just didn't care because it didn't affect my experience.
If you carefully stare at the screen whilst scrolling, there is a slight lag. You aren't able to read texts while scrolling like other macs. :p
It's a super minor issue people blow out of proportion.
 

mjn298

macrumors regular
Oct 25, 2011
201
0
Palisades, Washington, DC
If you carefully stare at the screen whilst scrolling, there is a slight lag. You aren't able to read texts while scrolling like other macs. :p
It's a super minor issue people blow out of proportion.
Well obviously it's not going to be like walking down a grocery store aisle!

I thought the computer was the best thing I'd ever seen but I swore to myself I would never get a first-run Apple product because I had a really bad experience w/ the first intel macbook pros back in 2006.

It's entirely superstitious.

I was also a little concerned about the lack of an additional glass panel on the Retina display because I travel a lot (and even when I'm not travelling my laptop is always in my bag) and I don't doubt the retina screen's durability but I need it to be proven to me.

But the thing is so damn incredible, I look forward to future models.
 

725032

Guest
Aug 5, 2012
724
0
I'm going to wait... The lag and screen optimisation issues need to be ironed out
 

Menge

macrumors 6502a
Dec 22, 2008
608
2
Amsterdam
What software were you using?
Plain Safari 6.0 scrolling through webpages with images (retina resolution ones) in them.

What is this lag people are talking about?
You'd flick two fingers in Safari on a site with images, for instance, and it do the scrolling in half second chunks: FRAME - 0.5s - FRAME - 0.5s - Scroll done. Mission Control is also laggy. If I were to say, the CPU is fast, but for some reason the redraw rate of the screen feels WORSE than my 2008 Aluminum MacBook connected to a HD screen.

But... DAT SCREEN!!!
 

Textureboy

macrumors 6502
Jul 25, 2012
322
40
You'd flick two fingers in Safari on a site with images, for instance, and it do the scrolling in half second chunks: FRAME - 0.5s - FRAME - 0.5s - Scroll done. Mission Control is also laggy. If I were to say, the CPU is fast, but for some reason the redraw rate of the screen feels WORSE than my 2008 Aluminum MacBook connected to a HD screen.

But... DAT SCREEN!!!
I've been at the apple store but never really noticed the lags, when my rMBP comes in I'll give it a test.

Agree though, DAT SCREEN ! LOL
 

mjn298

macrumors regular
Oct 25, 2011
201
0
Palisades, Washington, DC
Plain Safari 6.0 scrolling through webpages with images (retina resolution ones) in them.


You'd flick two fingers in Safari on a site with images, for instance, and it do the scrolling in half second chunks: FRAME - 0.5s - FRAME - 0.5s - Scroll done. Mission Control is also laggy. If I were to say, the CPU is fast, but for some reason the redraw rate of the screen feels WORSE than my 2008 Aluminum MacBook connected to a HD screen.

But... DAT SCREEN!!!
If this is the case i'm surprised they didn't do those lag-hiding animations that iOS is loaded with

they work so well at tricking me
 

Menge

macrumors 6502a
Dec 22, 2008
608
2
Amsterdam
If this is the case i'm surprised they didn't do those lag-hiding animations that iOS is loaded with
Those animations work (very) well when the lag comes from processing something else (loading content/data). But the rMBP lag comes from processing the images that you want to display to begin with, so in order to do a pretty animation, you must suffer lag first :\
 

mjn298

macrumors regular
Oct 25, 2011
201
0
Palisades, Washington, DC
Those animations work (very) well when the lag comes from processing something else (loading content/data). But the rMBP lag comes from processing the images that you want to display to begin with, so in order to do a pretty animation, you must suffer lag first :\
Yeah that's a good point.

I wish I had magnifying glasses in my eyes so i could run ableton at native resolution and be able to see it from a couple feet away

i hope that this third party music stuff gets "retnized" in the next couple of years when i'm in the market again
 

ixodes

macrumors 601
Jan 11, 2012
4,430
2
Pacific Coast, USA
All one has to do, is pay attention to Apple's normal practices. The second year after a major upgrade or redesign is the one to have.

Unless one has to impress their friends, there's no reason to buy the first year. You'll regret it when the next rev comes out.

Proof? A recent example is the newly redesigned 2010 MBA vs the 2011 MBA. The 2011 is far better, by a very wide margin.
 

haruhiko

macrumors 603
Sep 29, 2009
5,065
2,618
All one has to do, is pay attention to Apple's normal practices. The second year after a major upgrade or redesign is the one to have.

Unless one has to impress their friends, there's no reason to buy the first year. You'll regret it when the next rev comes out.

Proof? A recent example is the newly redesigned 2010 MBA vs the 2011 MBA. The 2011 is far better, by a very wide margin.
I agree. 2011 MBA is light years ahead of the 2010 version, mostly because of the lack of Sandy Bridge CPUs in the 2010 revision. Also the iPad 1! It's basically a large iPhone 3GS with a higher resolution. The iPad 2 still screams in 2012 but the 1 is obsolete already.
 

austinguy23

macrumors 6502a
Oct 8, 2008
613
8
Yeah the point that I'm trying to make is that the people who are trying to justify not buying one this year because next years model will fix the lag will just be in for disappointment.

Haswell won't be the answer that people are looking for.
Just a word of advice - don't make an assertion without backing it up with some logic.

The fact is, Haswell's integrated graphics will be 2-3 times faster than HD2k. Given the subtle (yet annoying) nature of the animation stutters, it is highly likely that even a 2x increase in graphics will resolve the lag issues.