I this what has become of my country?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by satcomer, May 23, 2011.

  1. satcomer macrumors 603

    satcomer

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    #1
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    WTF? Clearly the guy posed no threat to them. This kind of crap has to stop.
     
  3. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #3
    Not to be "that" guy but you should edit the title ;).


    EDIT:
    I'm not saying the cops were right but why did this guy have to behave like an ass? They certainly handled it wrong but I hardly find the wheel chair man to be a hero of freedom and justice.
     
  4. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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  5. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #5
    This has always happened. It's not new. Probably happens a lot less than it used to. Most LEO's (like people in any profession) are top-notch. A few LEO's (like people in any profession) are themselves criminals.

    Wit the advent of ubiquitous surveillance cameras and video on smartphones, you're just seein more of it on video.
     
  6. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #6
    wow that's so messed up. reminds me of a holocaust movie. :eek:
     
  7. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #7
    Impossible to know what happened before the video started taping. It's impossible to say whether or not they used excessive force for sure - but it is possible. The individual was clearly resisting the officers and the event that someone resists a lawful order, they pose a threat... specifically of the situation escalating and the person's friends, associates, or even passers by getting more involved than they should, etc. To the police officer this means increased opportunity for danger and physical violence. They must quickly subdue the individual to avoid further escalation. When a police officer tells you to do something within the law, do it. Don't be a wise ass, don't be an instigator, they're there to protect you/society and usually those who fight back are doing so for a reason.

    Without more evidence, I've got to side with the cops in this one.
     
  8. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #8
    Sorry fivepoint, I can't side with anybody who does that to a person on a wheelchair. No excuse for that kind of behavior- none whatsoever.
     
  9. dukebound85, May 23, 2011
    Last edited: May 23, 2011

    dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #9
    Wheelchair or not, you don't argue with police when you are doing something illegal. He brought this on himself as far as I am concerned as if he cooperated, none of this would have happened. Yes, it may have been handled a bit better by the police but really, the fault sqaurely resides with the man in the wheelchair

    There is no negotiation with the police
     
  10. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #10
    Really? NO excuse? Pardon me while I take your statement to it's logical conclusion. Say the guy had a gun that he was reaching for, and had verbally threatened to kill people including the officers. Would the force then be justified? How would you react in a similar situation under similar threat and danger?

    The POINT, is that the information is incomplete. Without more information, I'm forced to side with the police in this matter. It's impossible for us to tell what had proceeded the recording, what was said, etc.
     
  11. 184550 Guest

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    May 8, 2008
    #11
    I agree.

    I'm guessing some of the other posters didn't bother to read the article. I guess the 1:57 video is more sensational.

    From the article:

    The man had multiple chances to leave the area without incident. Disabled people aren't saints.
     
  12. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #12
    Where the **** is the assault on an officer here?

    They lifted up a man in a wheelchair then drove him face first into the ground. Regardless of whatever citation he had gotten, regardless of if he was a complete jerk about it, THAT DOESN't JUSTIFY THE PHYSICAL ASSAULT THAT THE OFFICERS DID HERE.

    Some of the "well he was a jerk so the cops can do whatever the **** they want" type responses here make me disgusted. You guys really think you believe in justice and freedom? If you actually did you'd understand that verbal provocation NEVER justifies a PHYSICAL response, especially from those who are supposed to be moral in their profession such as the police.

    This is ****ing disgusting on so many levels. I'm really ashamed at the way some here have responded here.
     
  13. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #13
    I'm with the righty-tighties.

    When you're dealing with the police, anything other than "Yes, sir." "No, sir." is likely to get you into trouble.

    I couldn't tell what he did from the video, but simply sitting in a powered chair doesn't give you a free pass when dealing with the police.

    They'll take you down first ... and worry about the details later.
     
  14. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #14
    Why do we allow our police force to operate in such a way? This is the land of the free? Where mere words and being impolite justifies the police physically abusing someone?

    I think somewhere in our history, this country has lost every sense of right and wrong.
     
  15. 184550 Guest

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    #15
    I've been pulled over twice for speeding. Once for 12 over and once for 15 over. Each time I've said 'Yes, Sir', 'No, Sir' and asked for permission to reach for my wallet/ license and glove box/ registration.

    Each time the officer has let me go with a warning because, in their words, 'You were polite and non confrontational.'

    Amazing how being civil and polite works out... :rolleyes:

    How much MSNBC can one watch? ;)
     
  16. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #16
    If police have someone not cooperating and being resistive when being cited for violating a law, the police WILL apprehend you forcibly. Being in a wheelchair does not give you a right or a waiver to willingly disobey officers:cool:

    They gave the man warnings. He chose not to heed them.


    Mere words and being impolite? No. It is being uncooperative and resisting the orders of the police after being given verbal warnings is what got him this response...

    Right and wrong? What are you even talking about:confused:
     
  17. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #17
    How very "libertarian" of you.
     
  18. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #18
    I think that pretty much sums up the psyche of this thread.

    Again, I'll have to ask, what kind of resistance can "justify" picking up a man whose legs do not work then proceeding to drive his head into the ground?

    Given the man was still in the chair before they removed him from it, his resistance must have been so overwhelming that this kind of treatment is totally necessary :rolleyes:

    Yes the police can arrest you forcibly. That said, there used to be a certain proportionality in how American's viewed the use of force. I guess that has gone by the wayside for are "all-in" approach to just about everything.

    This is disgusting.
     
  19. dukebound85, May 23, 2011
    Last edited: May 23, 2011

    dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #19
    I would hardly call being forced on the ground to cuff you is excessive. That is their training to subdue people who are being resistive in the safest manner for them. You expect them to just give the guy a free pass because he is in a wheelchair?

    He was not injured, he was not beaten, he was merely restrained and may have a few scuff marks.

    Jesus, you act as if they took out their bats and knocked the guy out to restrain them.:rolleyes:

    How do you propose they restrain someone who is resisting orders? The officers need to protect themselves firstly and use an efficient means to subdue one. You want them to ask kindly over and over? Sorry, that won't work as he is resisting.

    What do you propose....seriously...what do you propose they do if someone is resisting orders and not being cooperative

    You have unrealistic expectations.
     
  20. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #20
    Yep, it's quite consistent of a position. Notice that I said 'if he was breaking the law' or 'assuming he was doing something illegal', etc. in my posts. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have the right to resist.

    Now, the new federal ruling regarding someone 'smelling' weed outside my door giving them right to enter without a warrant... or the Indiana ruling regarding saying that the 4th amendment was BS, those things are completely different as there is a presumption of innocence.

    Was what happened to the guy, nice? No. Could they have found a better way? Probably. Do I feel prepared to lay down judgement and say they overreacted? No, there isn't enough information. Tie goes to the peace officer vs. the law breaker.
     
  21. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #21
    Surely this situation could have been handled vastly better than this? The guy posed no serious threat...
     
  22. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #22
    No, I don't ask them to give him a free pass, and i can already tell that you even suggesting that (words I never even hinted at) means you aren't here to discuss in good faith.

    Police are trained to appreciate that every situation is unique. The man was lifted onto his feet, then was driven head first to the ground. That isn't a proper take down (police are supposed to ensure a suspect isn't injured unless they present an immediate risk to an officer or bystander. They are also trained to take special circumstances into consideration. "By the book" involves assessing the situation at hand, not a one size fits all situations policy). They should have factored in that he was disabled and taken him down in a fashion that didn't result in a head bouncing off concrete.

    Never did I suggest that the arrest itself was uncalled for, only that the way they went about doing it showed an amazing lack of thought our caring for the individuals well-being.

    Do we at least have common ground on that the arrest was appropriate, but the way they went about doing it was uncalled for given the circumstances?
     
  23. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #23
    It creates a conflict of interest in the libertarian brain. First, there is the position that the government is unequivocally evil and by extension, so are its agents.

    Second, there's the idea that each man has the right to keep and bear arms and respond with lethal force if he feels threatened in some sort of quasi-cave man era scenario.

    Apparently the second point is paramount to the first given that it is codified as an amendment, because it appears to make the police force's discretion impeachable in such scenarios.

    The simple fact is that the police were justified in what they did if the description is accurate. Their use of force was not. There's simply no question that that amount of force was unnecessary. Slamming his face into the pavement did not serve to ward off potential friends who would help them, nor did it serve to incapacitate a man who was justifiably a physical threat.
     
  24. 184550 Guest

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    #24
    A 1:57 video and ~100 word news blurb provides you with enough information to authoritatively judge the circumstances of the situation?
     
  25. Designer Dale macrumors 68040

    Designer Dale

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    #25
    Here is an update to the story.

    Link to Update: http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...-Metro-Police-Getting-a-Lawyer-122460614.html

    I'm not going to take sides in this one. It's an excellent example of how alcohol trashes out your ability to make rational decisions. At least they didn't shoot him. Good thing this wasn't in Seattle or somewhere like that.

    Notice the cops putting pressure on the guy to kill the camera?

    Dale
     

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