I thought privatization fixed all problems?

G51989

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Feb 25, 2012
2,506
10
NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/07/13/3459601/emails-aramark-prison-food-michigan/

awmakers turned over Michigan’s prison kitchens to Aramark Corrections in December after the company convinced the state that it could save taxpayers $12 million. But since then, the state has fined the company nearly $100,000 for various violations including unauthorized menu changes, insufficient nutrition for inmates, and staff misconduct that endangers both guards and prisoners. Last month, the state warned Aramark that it would begin enforcing nutritional rules more strictly, and hinted that it could rescind the contract entirely if the company didn’t shape up.
Hmmmm, I thought private companies don't make mistakes like the evil blundering goverment?

–74 of the roughly 300 Aramark employees who are supposed to work on the contract have been banned from Michigan prison facilities for violations including showing up drunk to work, having sexual contact with inmates, and attempting to smuggle drugs into the prisons.
I thought according to some people...private workers were so much better and hard working and honest than evil goverment workers!

The profit stream may be good news for shareholders and executives, but the company’s track record in the prison food business is not so great for incarcerated people, guards, and taxpayers. The company’s poor handling of a food contract was blamed for causing riots in a Kentucky prison in 2009, and issues similar to the ones Michigan officials report have cropped up in Aramark-run prison kitchens in Florida, Ohio, and Indiana.

Hmmm.

I thought Privatizing things fixes all problems? Guess not!

Who woulda thunk it?

If anyone doesn't know who Aramark is, they are responsible for the crappy stadium food lots of the country eats. They also do small business and large business cafes and cafeterias, they came to me when I built a 50 seater Cafe in my main building, the food was fairly appaling. I went with a local company instead.

So....private companies in prisons? Seems like a recipe for disaster.
 

samiwas

macrumors 68000
Aug 26, 2006
1,575
3,518
Atlanta, GA
Hmmm.

I thought Privatizing things fixes all problems? Guess not!
Well, look at the bright part of your sourced article. Shareholders and executives seem to be making good returns, and that is the only purpose of business. So this seems to actually be a positive thing!
 

G51989

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Feb 25, 2012
2,506
10
NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
Well, look at the bright part of your sourced article. Shareholders and executives seem to be making good returns, and that is the only purpose of business. So this seems to actually be a positive thing!
Of course!

Who cares how many prisoners get raped, given drugs, get sick, or maybe straight up die!

Look at the margins!
 

vrDrew

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2010
1,317
11,838
Midlife, Midwest
The real issue is why we have so many people in prison to begin with.

By any reasonable estimate, the United States incarcerates its citizens at a rate two to four times higher than any other advanced economic nation. Thanks the war on drugs, three-strikes rules, and "get tough on crime" elected officials - from legislators to Judges, Sheriffs, and District Attorneys for this.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
Of course!

Who cares how many prisoners get raped, given drugs, get sick, or maybe straight up die!

Look at the margins!
That's all a private company really cares about these days.

----------

The real issue is why we have so many people in prison to begin with.

By any reasonable estimate, the United States incarcerates its citizens at a rate two to four times higher than any other advanced economic nation. Thanks the war on drugs, three-strikes rules, and "get tough on crime" elected officials - from legislators to Judges, Sheriffs, and District Attorneys for this.
Which are all the cost of a large private prison system.
 

G51989

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Feb 25, 2012
2,506
10
NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
That's all a private company really cares about these days.
Well I own my own private company, just hired more engineers and a CAD guy on, and a machinist, so I am up 41 people now. And I can tell you, yes I do care about the bottom line, but I also care a lot about my workers, thats for sure. And the community I live in.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
Well I own my own private company, just hired more engineers and a CAD guy on, and a machinist, so I am up 41 people now. And I can tell you, yes I do care about the bottom line, but I also care a lot about my workers, thats for sure. And the community I live in.
You're a rarity.

Also, what type of business do you run?
 

Southern Dad

macrumors 68000
May 23, 2010
1,532
547
Shady Dale, Georgia
Well I own my own private company, just hired more engineers and a CAD guy on, and a machinist, so I am up 41 people now. And I can tell you, yes I do care about the bottom line, but I also care a lot about my workers, thats for sure. And the community I live in.
Says the guy with 13 cars, a house in the 'burbs and a condo in the city. I hate to tell you but your one of those rich people that this forum rails against.
 

G51989

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Feb 25, 2012
2,506
10
NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
Says the guy with 13 cars, a house in the 'burbs and a condo in the city. I hate to tell you but your one of those rich people that this forum rails against.
Most of those cars are for work, I would 5 of them are somewhat Valuable. Though the most expensive car I have is the Grand Sport, I paid a little under 70 for that.

No Ferraris or Maybachs :p Sorry.

I do not have a house in the 'burbs.

And Yes, I have a place in the city.

Why do you hate success so much?

I mean one of those cars is a 2010 Ford Ranger I bought for 8 Grand. I know, hugely show off car.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
Says the guy with 13 cars, a house in the 'burbs and a condo in the city. I hate to tell you but your one of those rich people that this forum rails against.
I don't think many people on this forum hate rich people, they just don't like it when rich people are so self-focused. It isn't about how much money you have, it's about how you got it and who you screwed over to get it. You keep trying to paint G5 as some elitist, when if he didn't say he was rich I'd have no idea. He doesn't brag about his wealth, act like he's better, and he understands that life is tough.

So, yeah, he's hardly the type of person this forum rails against.
 

Menel

macrumors 603
Aug 4, 2011
6,199
1,050
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/07/13/3459601/emails-aramark-prison-food-michigan/



Hmmmm, I thought private companies don't make mistakes like the evil blundering goverment?



I thought according to some people...private workers were so much better and hard working and honest than evil goverment workers!




Hmmm.

I thought Privatizing things fixes all problems? Guess not!

Who woulda thunk it?

If anyone doesn't know who Aramark is, they are responsible for the crappy stadium food lots of the country eats. They also do small business and large business cafes and cafeterias, they came to me when I built a 50 seater Cafe in my main building, the food was fairly appaling. I went with a local company instead.

So....private companies in prisons? Seems like a recipe for disaster.
Sounds like the result of what happens when you choose the lowest bidder, irrespective of quality.

You highlight how you've been the position to make a similar choice before, but chose differently.

Why blame the company that makes the business case around the compromise of quality for low cost, that's valid. But not blame the decision maker who chose them, gave them sole monopoly rights to service the prisons?
 

samiwas

macrumors 68000
Aug 26, 2006
1,575
3,518
Atlanta, GA
Says the guy with 13 cars, a house in the 'burbs and a condo in the city. I hate to tell you but your one of those rich people that this forum rails against.
Wrong. Here's a clue for you: few of us care if someone is rich. We care when someone got rich by laying off people, paying low wages, removing benefits, manipulating markets, or having pretty much anything to do with Wall Street. We also care when those same people denigrate the lower classes saying they are poor by choice, that they need to work harder and longer if they want even a living wage, that they are lazy moochers, or are otherwise just general d-bags.

If everything he says is true, G5 doesn't fall within these parameters. According to him, he donates lots of money to local causes, pays his employees well above market wage, gives them great benefits and a good home-work balance, feeds them at work, amongst other things.

THIS is how the rich can actually look good in other peoples' eyes. Stop with the "I did everything myself" and "I work harder than anyone else" and "I deserve everything" and "workers are just workers..they can't do what I do" and "we need to keep wages low so those workers try harder" etc. Act like a selfish prick, you're going to be treated like a selfish prick.

My current executive producer could be paid a billion dollars a day, and I would cheer her for it. But I've worked for many an ******* who should have shoved their fingers into an electrical socket.

If people treat you badly, it's not because you're rich. It's because your a rich *******.

I should also mention that I work frequently with one of entertainment's highest paid people, and he's a great guy. He's firm and about business, but he's not an ass.

(man this forum is strict with the censoring!)
 
Last edited:

barkomatic

macrumors 601
Aug 8, 2008
4,027
1,798
Manhattan
Private businesses do some things better while other tasks should not be outsourced. For awhile, I think many government institutions, universities etc were in love with the idea of outsourcing certain things but I think that trend is reversing.
 

G51989

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Feb 25, 2012
2,506
10
NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
You're a rarity.
Depends, lots of small business owners care. Large companies? Some do but Not so much. As is pointed out, the goal of them is to pay shareholders, not to provide a good product or jobs.

Also, what type of business do you run?
A couple things, the best way to describe us would to be a upstart, we do precision machine work for clients, test circuits, we build prototypes, we do simulations for any product or building or whatever you want. Our biggest client right now is actually Westinghouse Electric followed by Siemens and a few others . I've been over to Pittsburgh so many times because of it, I'm starting to like that city ;) We even have a waiting list right now, the expansion has been faster than I could have imagined. I started out as an engineer, I worked for IBM, Boeing, NewPort News and a smaller company in NYC where I walked out of, and said **** it I am going out on my own, I get to play businessman and engineer ;) I love it.

I also have ZERO urge to turn into a 1,000+ person giant company, because when you get that big you start looking at your workers different, your product differently, and your customers differently, and your people differently. Zero urge.

I try to be better I....
Pay my workers nearly 20% above the average
Free Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner if you need to stay that late for dinner in our little 50 person Cafe
The Health insurance plan I have costs me quite a bit of money, and its a good one, the Co Pays are very low for myself and the workers, yes I have the same health insurance plan as my workers do
Even a guy coming right out of 2 or 4 year school depending on his job, gets 3-4 weeks of paid vacation a year to start
We don't work holidays, ever. Take a week off for Xmas.
At least once a month during nice weather I like to hire a local BBQ catering company to come out, and do a catering outdoors on the Patio on a friday after the work day is over, and have a live band and some beer and all that ;)
40 hours a week, unless we are on some insane deadline which does happen, I have no urge to make my people work 70 hours a week for no extra pay like lots of companies do.

I do lots of work with local charities as well.

I could cut all of those perks and donations, and put more money in my pocket.

But question?

Why should I? I have plenty of money. More money won't make me more happy.

Also during the summer, I have ties with 2 local Vocational schools and high schools. Any junior or senior who wants to be an engineer, CAD guy, wiring guy, test bench tech, machinist, welder, they can come down during the summer break and Intern and learn, I even pay them a little something to.

I know, I am such a huge selfish ******* who ONLY cares about the bottom line and no one else around me ;)

----------

If everything he says is true, G5 doesn't fall within these parameters. According to him, he donates lots of money to local causes, pays his employees well above market wage, gives them great benefits and a good home-work balance, feeds them at work, amongst other things.
You know why I do that? its the right thing to do.

I grew up fairly poor, I busted my ass to get to where I am today, and I have No urge at all to be a super rick guy making 300 million.

How would that make me happy?

How would cutting wages and benefits to my workers make me happy?

Make my wallet fatter? * yawns *

top with the "I did everything myself" and "I work harder than anyone else" and "I deserve everything" and "workers are just workers..they can't do what I do" and "we need to keep wages low so those workers try harder"
Wait...are you telling me I could run a full on upstart by myself...without all these people I hired?

How do I do that? Am I not pulling myself up by my bootsraps enough?
 

Arran

macrumors 601
Mar 7, 2008
4,353
2,725
Atlanta, USA
...they just don't like it when rich people are so self-focused.
You don't need to be rich to be self-centered.

Of course the issue isn't really one of private vs public organizations. That's an oversimplification. The issue is bad people. They crop up anywhere and, indeed, embed themselves in whatever type of organization benefits them at the time.

The, "private=good, public=bad", routine is just today's smokescreen. An effective one, since it's mindlessly easy to grasp.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
Depends, lots of small business owners care. Large companies? Some do but Not so much. As is pointed out, the goal of them is to pay shareholders, not to provide a good product or jobs.



A couple things, the best way to describe us would to be a upstart, we do precision machine work for clients, test circuits, we build prototypes, we do simulations for any product or building or whatever you want. Our biggest client right now is actually Westinghouse Electric followed by Siemens and a few others . I've been over to Pittsburgh so many times because of it, I'm starting to like that city ;) We even have a waiting list right now, the expansion has been faster than I could have imagined. I started out as an engineer, I worked for IBM, Boeing, NewPort News and a smaller company in NYC where I walked out of, and said **** it I am going out on my own, I get to play businessman and engineer ;) I love it.

I also have ZERO urge to turn into a 1,000+ person giant company, because when you get that big you start looking at your workers different, your product differently, and your customers differently, and your people differently. Zero urge.

I try to be better I....
Pay my workers nearly 20% above the average
Free Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner if you need to stay that late for dinner in our little 50 person Cafe
The Health insurance plan I have costs me quite a bit of money, and its a good one, the Co Pays are very low for myself and the workers, yes I have the same health insurance plan as my workers do
Even a guy coming right out of 2 or 4 year school depending on his job, gets 3-4 weeks of paid vacation a year to start
We don't work holidays, ever. Take a week off for Xmas.
At least once a month during nice weather I like to hire a local BBQ catering company to come out, and do a catering outdoors on the Patio on a friday after the work day is over, and have a live band and some beer and all that ;)
40 hours a week, unless we are on some insane deadline which does happen, I have no urge to make my people work 70 hours a week for no extra pay like lots of companies do.

I do lots of work with local charities as well.

I could cut all of those perks and donations, and put more money in my pocket.

But question?

Why should I? I have plenty of money. More money won't make me more happy.

Also during the summer, I have ties with 2 local Vocational schools and high schools. Any junior or senior who wants to be an engineer, CAD guy, wiring guy, test bench tech, machinist, welder, they can come down during the summer break and Intern and learn, I even pay them a little something to.

I know, I am such a huge selfish ******* who ONLY cares about the bottom line and no one else around me ;)

----------



You know why I do that? its the right thing to do.

I grew up fairly poor, I busted my ass to get to where I am today, and I have No urge at all to be a super rick guy making 300 million.

How would that make me happy?

How would cutting wages and benefits to my workers make me happy?

Make my wallet fatter? * yawns *



Wait...are you telling me I could run a full on upstart by myself...without all these people I hired?

How do I do that? Am I not pulling myself up by my bootsraps enough?
I don't know if it's really being in a large company that does that, or if it's the type of people that run large companies that already look at their employees like they do.
 

G51989

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Feb 25, 2012
2,506
10
NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
Act like a selfish prick, you're going to be treated like a selfish prick.
Exactly, I was not brought up as a selfish prick, and I will never become one.

Yeah sure, got a nice place in NYC, and a big nice place North of the City, and I have nice cars, and nice things.

But guess what, those nice things will never come before the people that I depend on, or the people around me, in the name of a fatter pocketbook.

You take care of those around you, and those you depend on.

Then you buy your nice things.

My General project general manager drives a nicer car than my Vette ( BMW M6 ), god I must be a failure!

----------

I don't know if it's really being in a large company that does that, or if it's the type of people that run large companies that already look at their employees like they do.
Yeah not all large companies are bad, when I worked for Boeing and IBM, they treat their workers freaking awesome. NewPort News? Not so much.

I find the problem with lots of huge companies in America, is when youget REALLY huge, you can only look at numbers ,that tends to distort how you see your company and society.

I have no urge to turn into a giant huge business one day. Not do I have the urge to be worth 150 million dollars for no good reason.

How would that make me happy?
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
You don't need to be rich to be self-centered.

Of course the issue isn't really one of private vs public organizations. That's an oversimplification. The issue is bad people. They crop up anywhere and, indeed, embed themselves in whatever type of organization benefits them at the time.

The, "private=good, public=bad", routine is just today's smokescreen. An effective one, since it's mindlessly easy to grasp.
In a culture that rewards greed, and self-focus, it tends to be the self-focused people who become rich. That isn't always the case, there are great rich people and self-obsessed poor, but it does seem to be a trend.
 

G51989

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Feb 25, 2012
2,506
10
NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
I don't know if it's really being in a large company that does that, or if it's the type of people that run large companies that already look at their employees like they do.
The other reason is, you also lose control.

Right now, I have 100% control of every product and fulfillment of contract that goes out of that loading dock or goes out of our server room.

Therefore, I know its all up to my standards of as close to perfection as is possible, quality is why clients come to us over companies 100 times our size and are willing to be on a wait list. Right now there is a new machine shop about halfway down on my commercial property, I had a guy from Westinghouse Electric visit and he said " man, when can you guys get that done? I'll have more for you when it is done "

I feel if I was a giant company with a board of directions, I wouldn't have the same control I do.
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,409
The Coast-to-Coast Failures of Outsourcing Public Services to For-Profit Corporations


National Public Radio recently examined Maximus contracts from several states, including Connecticut, Hawaii, and Vermont. In Connecticut, the investigator was able to receive a copy of the call center contract between Maximus and the state, but all of the language about pricing was redacted.
In emails to the state, the company argued that releasing its pricing information would “result in irreparable economic damage to Maximus and significantly weaken its competitive position in the marketplace.”2
As a result, taxpayers don’t know how much Connecticut is paying its contractor. The company values the Connecticut contract at $15 million, but the description of those fees and how they are calculated is not public information.

A similar disregard for taxpayers occurred in Arkansas in the fall of 2013 when a Jonesboro Sun
journalist asked the CEO of Tiger Correctional Services, a company that contracts for jail commissary services with the Craighead County Sheriff’s Department, about information regarding the company’s monthly sales and profits related to the contract. The chief executive officer of the company told the reporter, “That’s none of your damn business.”

Scary document.
 

FreemanW

macrumors 6502
Sep 10, 2012
472
87
The Real Northern California
Says the guy with 13 cars, a house in the 'burbs and a condo in the city. I hate to tell you but your one of those rich people that this forum rails against.
Financial status is never the issue.

It is an issue of morality and integrity.

Wealthy people are no more entitled or privileged than anyone else, and yet, they frequently behave as though they are special and deserving of the extraordinary benefits their positions of wealth afford them. Tax breaks and advantages in the tax code (Social Security obligations capped at $105k) and too many other examples to mention.

The better off someone is, the more willing they ought to be to express their gratitude for financial success with a willingness to contribute to the same society that has largely made their success possible. All too often, the inverse is true.

Privatization is one of the main spokes in the wheel called "socialize costs, privatize profits" . . . . . something that the billions of dollars spent through NASA over the years facilitate quite effectively . . . . . and which the Pentagon continues to do very well.