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IBM at 90nm by Q4?

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
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An Infoworld story from last week notes that IBM is actively working on 90nm chips and actually plans on shipping these chips before long:

IBM is currently sampling 90 nanometer chips using SOI, and plans to ship those chips in the fourth quarter, said Scott Sykes, an IBM spokesman.

Current PowerPC 970s utilize a 130nm process. While no specific chips were referenced in the Infoworld article, a 90nm chip would bring higher clockspeeds and lower heat production.

Meanwhile, an unverified report that appeared on Page 2 claims to have more details, but also claims a later ship date for the 90nm chips.
 

Ambrose Chapel

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2002
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3
Massachusetts
hopefully this will push PBs into G5-land way before the end of '04. Steve announced Desktop G5s at WWDC 03, maybe he'll announce the PowerBook G5 at WWDC 04?? Here's hoping
 
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Mr.Hey

macrumors 6502
Jul 17, 2002
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Hearing progress updates such as these warms my heart. Apple and IBM makes for a fatal combination for Apple's competitors. Go Apple! :D
 
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Lancetx

macrumors 68000
Aug 11, 2003
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Texas
Originally posted by Ambrose Chapel
hopefully this will push PBs into G5-land way before the end of '04. Steve announced Desktop G5s at WWDC 03, maybe he'll announce the PowerBook G5 at WWDC 04?? Here's hoping

Yep, here's hoping we see them not only in PowerBooks but also in iMacs too by next summer.
 
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Rocketman

macrumors 603
Re: IBM at 90nm by Q4?

Originally posted by Macrumors
An Infoworld story from last week notes that IBM is actively working on 90nm chips and actually plans on shipping these chips before long:

Looks like the year of the Powerbook is about to get a "leetle" bit longer :)
2003-2004.

Can you even imagine the astonishment (shock and awe) when a G5 Powerbook comes out and unix and wintel geeks start jumping ship to OSX? I cannot.

Rocketman
 
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dongmin

macrumors 68000
Jan 3, 2002
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Originally posted by Ambrose Chapel
hopefully this will push PBs into G5-land way before the end of '04. Steve announced Desktop G5s at WWDC 03, maybe he'll announce the PowerBook G5 at WWDC 04?? Here's hoping

Wouldn't get your hope up just yet. We still don't know what kind of heat the 90 nano process 970s give off.

This is according to the page 2 rumor:
An anonymous/unverified report claims that Apple has already been seeded sample 90nm PowerPC 970s this month. Reportedly, they run from 1.8GHz to 3.2GHz and heat production is significant improved, with a 2GHz at only 34W, down from 57W. The 3.2GHz chip reportedly at 71W.
34W seems way high. At the same voltage, a 1.6 ghz 970 (90 nano) would give off 27W, too high for a laptop I presume. Of course, this is only a page 2 rumor so we don't want to read too much into it. And there are many other factors that come into play.

It struck me that a 2ghz 970 (130 nano) gives off 57W. Seems awfully high. Isn't that in the Pentium 4 range?
 
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isgoed

macrumors 6502
Jun 5, 2003
328
0
So what will ibm make at 90nm? A Power5? I think it is a little bit too optimistic to already speak of production 970's.

And the article is about 90nm in general. It said that intel does not use silicon on insulator (SOI). That is probably causing the heat. And AMD is not making a 90nm before Q2 2004. Surely those AMD fans are waiting fore those high clocked athlon FX's
 
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WackyM

macrumors newbie
Aug 28, 2003
7
0
Le Northwest
Yay!

I look forward to my next powerbook purchase in a year or two :D Right now I'm still waiting for my 15 1.25 to arrive... weeeeeeee!!!!!
 
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manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
6,929
2,815
G5 Powerbook

I won't buy a G5 Powerbook until VirtualPC (if ever???) runs on a G5. And since dual G4s (e.g. @1.25Ghz) seem to be faster with MP-aware, non-G5-optimised programs than single G5s (e.g. @1.6Ghz), I am still hoping for something like a dual 1.33 Ghz 17'' Powerbook.
 
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Tim Flynn

macrumors regular
Jan 9, 2003
141
0
Alberta
Xilinx ( a FPGA) vendor is all ready shipping FPGAs built upon 90nm design.
The chips are fabbed by IBM.
So a 90nm 970 in the near future sounds reasonable.
Normally for a CMOS design the power calculations (used to be ) are simple.
Basically power was linear with frequency and squared with voltage. But with the smaller geometeries, leakage current (power) has become a bigger factor. Early information for 90nm showed that the leakage current (power) was about half of the total.
So not all electrons are used to find aliens or fold a protein, a big part is used to heat the room :D

But, I'm sure IBM has some tricks up their sleeves ;)
 
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sharky2313

macrumors member
Jun 17, 2003
35
0
good news

very good news indeed. I like rumors of aggressive G5 development. This seriously shows us how pathetic Moto has been and developing and extending the G4 for the Mac.
 
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IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,889
1,478
Palookaville
The article cited also reports that Motorola expects to ship 90nm microprocessors in Q4, meaning we might be seeing faster/cooler G4s in the same time-frame. IMO, these would seem more likely to find their way into PowerBooks then the G5 at this point. Not to burst anyone's bubble, but it may be too soon to hope for G5 Mac-everythings any time soon. If IBM comes up with faster/cooler G5s, they're almost certainly destined for Apple's high-end products.
 
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bluedalmatian

macrumors member
Jun 8, 2003
39
0
Great Britain
Personally I'd rather see a G5 Xserve before a Powerbook.

at present the g4 PBs are doing very well but i've a feeling that the Xserve is flagging a little
 
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Rincewind42

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2003
620
0
Orlando, FL
Originally posted by dongmin
This is according to the page 2 rumor: 34W seems way high. At the same voltage, a 1.6 ghz 970 (90 nano) would give off 27W, too high for a laptop I presume. Of course, this is only a page 2 rumor so we don't want to read too much into it. And there are many other factors that come into play.

If you ran a 2Ghz part at 1.6ghz without reducing the core voltage, then yes you get about 27 watts. But dropping the core voltage also drops the maximum speed while reducing power usage a lot more. If you reduce the core voltage as well, then you could shed another 8 watts down to 19w. Probably still a little high compared to the 7457 though.

It struck me that a 2ghz 970 (130 nano) gives off 57W. Seems awfully high. Isn't that in the Pentium 4 range?

If you compare to a 2 Ghz P4, then I think you are seeing similar power usage (the primary factor in power usage is relative to the transistor count and size, and I wouldn't be surprised if the 970 & P4 had a similar transistor count). But of course, a 2Ghz 970 absolutely smokes a 2Ghz P4 so I don't think the comparison is particularly fair :D.
 
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Powerbook G5

macrumors 68040
Jun 23, 2003
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St Augustine, FL
Man, it would suck if a G5 PowerBook were to come out after finally getting a new 15"! Ah well, I love this to death and don't need a G5 anyway. I wonder what they will look like, though. :)
 
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GUSTO

macrumors member
Sep 23, 2003
70
0
Scotland
So correct me if I am wrong;)

These new chip are ready THIS YEAR!? and will be shipped THIS YEAR!? so we could see these new chips in new powemacs??? aswel as powerbooks???

I am going to buy a dual G5 this week, but now with this new info should I hold off for these new G5 chips?????

And if these chips get into new powermacs when do you think they will see the light of day?
 
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IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,889
1,478
Palookaville
Another argument against G5 PBs any time soon: Apple has never jumped processor families in their portables without changing the form factor. The current 12 and 17 inch PBs form factors are less then one year old, and the 15 inch is brand new. By necessity and/or marketing, a G5 PB will have a new form factor -- and it's just too early in the product cycle for this to happen within the next 3-6 months.

My most optimistic guess for a G5 PB: next summer. Potentially, the G5 could creep into the consumer line (iMac) by the end of next year, but I'd call that very doubtful.
 
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Raman1970

macrumors newbie
Sep 25, 2003
4
0
Beverly Hills
Okay.. can someone shed a little bit of light.... in not that savy on processor sizes..

So if I understand correctly.. a 130 nm processor is for desktop and 90 nm is for portables?

But then some mention that the 90 nm may find their way into powermac G5s.

Raman
 
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Rincewind42

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2003
620
0
Orlando, FL
Originally posted by Raman1970
Okay.. can someone shed a little bit of light.... in not that savy on processor sizes..

So if I understand correctly.. a 130 nm processor is for desktop and 90 nm is for portables?

But then some mention that the 90 nm may find their way into powermac G5s.

Raman

Process size has no direct influence on what targets the chip is used for, insofar as a smaller process can certainly be used for the same tasks as a larger process. The advantages of a smaller process are less power, heat and a smaller package. Those advantages do tend to allow you to use chips in places they weren't usable in before.
 
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grahamtriggs

macrumors regular
Jul 31, 2003
169
86
It isn't clear whether the IBM spokesman meant Q4 actual or financial year... if it was the financial year, that would put it around the Q2 2004 / summer 3Ghz timeframe.

Although a nice speed bump for San Francisco would be nice... if the current 2Ghz is running around 50W, and the new 3.2Ghz will run at 70W, then there is probably some room for bumping the current generation of G5s...
 
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